Russian Ammo

[mhotz]

Well, if it's electronics you are almost certainly buying non-American. Almost all the components come from Pacific Rim, even on "American" brands like Hewlett Packard. Open one of their PC's and look. Apple's assembly plants are all there.

yep -- that's correct -- that's why I said "whenever I can" -- and it is getting harder and harder to follow the "Buy American" path -- and it's not just the technology we're talking about -- U.S companies off-shoring intellectual work is rampant also -- It's common practice for U.S. companies (and even your very own California State Government) to either directly outsource (or work through American contractors who outsource) most of their computer coding to places like India where people work for pennies on the dollar -- cheap labor and cheap products -- but to all the pocket-book patriots I say it's OK because when your job goes away you can always work at McDonalds or Walmart.

[bountyhunter]

yep -- that's correct -- that's why I said "whenever I can" -- and it is getting harder and harder to follow the "Buy American" path -- and it's not just the technology we're talking about -- U.S companies off-shoring intellectual work is rampant also -- It's common practice for U.S. companies (and even your very own California State Government) to either directly outsource (or work through American contractors who outsource) most of their computer coding to places like India where people work for pennies on the dollar -- cheap labor and cheap products -- but to all the pocket-book patriots I say it's OK because when your job goes away you can always work at McDonalds or Walmart.

True enough. It's virtually impossible to find any product these days that is 100% American except for small outfits making screen doors or bath mats or something. Anything that has piece parts is likely getting them made in Pacific Rim.

[mhotz]

This discussion is probably just about done -- so I wanted to say thanks to all those who viewed the thread and even more so to those who shared their opinions -- we all obviously don't agree, but when would that ever happen anyway -- I completely understand your economic arguments and sympathize -- But I wish that more posters thought that Putin was as much of a danger as I do – And I still wish more people bought American so we could get some of the unemployed back to work -- But maybe I'm just getting old and crotchety and skittery -- I don’t think I'll ever be persuaded though that bullets are just as much a life-essential commodity as rent, food, medicine, diapers or beer -- thanks to all -- good shooting

[robodeer]

Well, if it's electronics you are almost certainly buying non-American. Almost all the components come from Pacific Rim, even on "American" brands like Hewlett Packard. Open one of their PC's and look. Apple's assembly plants are all there.

Then again, China isn't implying that they can nuke their consumers. For all of the lying, cheating and stealing that's done by them... both the US and China still actively try to maintain ties. Not so much with a more insular Russia.

[robodeer]

(Taiwanese) Wolf Gold is pretty sweet, though.

[major burnout]

This discussion is probably just about done -- so I wanted to say thanks to all those who viewed the thread and even more so to those who shared their opinions -- we all obviously don't agree, but when would that ever happen anyway -- I completely understand your economic arguments and sympathize -- But I wish that more posters thought that Putin was as much of a danger as I do – And I still wish more people bought American so we could get some of the unemployed back to work -- But maybe I'm just getting old and crotchety and skittery -- I don’t think I'll ever be persuaded though that bullets are just as much a life-essential commodity as rent, food, medicine, diapers or beer -- thanks to all -- good shooting

Everyone trys to buy american when they can. The thing is, there is no way to buy cheap dirty american made x39 ammo. No reason to call anyone unpatriotic. We need to buy things from other countries. It would not be good for the dollar if we only spent It here.

Putin is a puppet just like Obama.

You seem like a nice guy. Dont buy into the ron paul isolationism.

[2761377]

OP doesn't appreciate the threat of China. Maybe it's because of Putin's histrionic saber rattling but PRC is much more dangerous for U.S.

let me google "Area Denial" for you-

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2014/07/the-us-needs-an-integrated-approach-to-counter-chinas-anti-accessarea-denial-strategy

and further evidence of the strategy at work-

http://www.wsj.com/articles/china-building-airstrip-in-spratly-islands-satellite-images-show-1429188914

not to mention the economic bondage China us in.

[hellayella]

OP doesn't appreciate the threat of China. Maybe it's because of Putin's histrionic saber rattling but PRC is much more dangerous for U.S.

let me google "Area Denial" for you-

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2014/07/the-us-needs-an-integrated-approach-to-counter-chinas-anti-accessarea-denial-strategy

and further evidence of the strategy at work-

http://www.wsj.com/articles/china-building-airstrip-in-spratly-islands-satellite-images-show-1429188914

not to mention the economic bondage China us in.

..ur a dipS#$% thinking that China is the bad guy in the Spratley's...when the US annexed the PI, it only left a lot of cronie-ism in it's wake along with Spanish-style colonial bull@#$ too...that's why the Philippines is light years behind it's cousins like Singapore and Malaysia...

the powers that operate the petro-dollar just want the Spratley's to lend credence and power to the petro-dollar, which is faltering due to Russian and China strengthening their own currencies...I for one don't want the Spratley's developed at all..no China, no Vietnam, no Phillippines..one false move like an oil spill and the whole South China Sea will be a virtual dead zone like the US Gulf Coast...

[robodeer]

It's a natural resources and influence over sea lanes game in any case. China would gain more by a "peaceful rise", even with rhetoric, rather than a hot war that might destroy ties.

It would be interesting to see how China plays the "disputed territory" thing, though. Up until now they've been primarily focused on themselves and growing economically rather than Crimea'ing whenever they get antsy. There's a pretty robust hawk'ish segment that might lean towards flexing their muscles more, militarily. We'll see if they can ride the line successfully.

[doctor_vals]

What annexation means, by dictionary http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/annexation

2) built up troops on their border with Ukraine,

Wow, they build up troops on their land closed to the country with ongoing civil war? From another hands, why US 173 Airborne Brigade sent to Ukraine on the Russian border? Do we have Russian troops on our borders?

3) armed and are aiding Ukrainian rebels,

Well, do you think that our government do not sending modern weaponry to Ukraine? And not only to Ukraine, but also to many terrorist groups in Asia.

4) had a hand in shooting down Malaysian Flight M17,

5) fired artillery into the Ukraine from inside Russia,

Again - Do you have any prove for this accusation? Or you listen to Jen Psaki??? LOL!

6) re-opened military bases near allied Nordic countries and the Baltic states that had been shut down since the cold war

8) flown its military aircraft into Baltic territory repeatedly and with increasing frequency

As we all recently saw, it was US spy plane who tried to enter to the Russian air space. And American spy planes just recently start these provocative flights. And it was no any accident when Russian pilots broke into their airspace. But recently 2 times Russians intercepted F-16 closed to St. Petersburg region.

9) intends to send missiles to Iran

10) intercepted and endangered U.S. military planes with Russian fighters over international waters

11) started down the path to rebuild the Czarist and Soviet empires,

Why do you care? You do not care that American government continue to build Socialism, but you care what people in other countries are doing???

12) assassinated a political dissident within sight of KGB headquarters,

[mhotz]

Everyone trys to buy american when they can. The thing is, there is no way to buy cheap dirty american made x39 ammo. No reason to call anyone unpatriotic. We need to buy things from other countries. It would not be good for the dollar if we only spent It here.

Putin is a puppet just like Obama.

You seem like a nice guy. Dont buy into the ron paul isolationism.

Appreciate your comments, but I have to respectfully disagree -- I believe Putin isn't a puppet -- he's the puppet master aggressively pulling the strings of the western world -- I do agree that Obama is a puppet though, especially now in the last half of his second term. It's embarrassing seeing an American president (Republican or Democrat) being bi*ch slapped by a congress (Republican or Democrat). Maybe I'm alone in this, but I miss the days of Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill who worked together to reach reasonable compromises that made government actually function. Bottom line was what was best for the American people.

One last questions for everyone though -- people have repeatedly said they want cheap dirty ammo -- But I've never believed that being cheap was the reason that ammo was dirty. In fact, I thought they don't have to equate at all. I thought that Wolf ammo (pre-polymer coating)was considered dirty because the steel cases didn't sufficiently obturate when fired, leaving a gap between case wall and chamber wall that became carbon fouled. And this carbon fouling was not only "dirty", but produced a sizable number of case extraction problems (at least in rifles with tight tolerances). And it is also my understanding that this problem is common to all steel-cased ammo (at least until manufacturers started doing things like adding a polymer-coating to the cases. I know people use to also say Wolf was dirty because they used corrosive powders, but I thought that had been debunked. Is any of this right?

[mhotz]

Doctor Vals

Good answers Doctor Vals -- but I just don't happen to agree with many of them -- since you asked I will tell you that since I'm retired (and waiting on my next hunting trip) I have a LOT of time to read, watch and listen to the news -- so I get stuff from (in no order of preference) CNN, PBS, Fox, MSNBC, BBC, USA Today, New York Times and the Wall Street Journal -- never have liked the SF Chronicle or the Washington Post, so I stay away from them -- and when I see something from multiple creditable sources and hear it verified by allied governments, world bodies and independent organization I tend to believe it has some element of truth in it -- I do agree with what I believe you were saying in that most of the unvarnished info coming down the pike if HEAVILY slanted and self-serving, no matter what the source, and if left unexamined is worthless -- but I believe that what can reasonably be called facts can be found if you peek around the edges enough -- so lets just say we agree to disagree and let it go at that -- I have my sources and you have yours, and I wish you nothing but the best

But I'd still like to hear why so many people call Wolf ammo dirty? I thought the polymer-coating took care of the chamber fouling.

[Spyder]

I just want to know why no American country is making comparatively priced steel cased ammo...

[Vlad 11]

But I'd still like to hear why so many people call Wolf ammo dirty? I thought the polymer-coating took care of the chamber fouling.

Wolf doesnt manufacture ammunition. They contract out to many sources. Yes, mostly Russian sources which consist of gov and private entities. These are not all 'Wolf'.

There is Tula , Barnaul, Vympel Amursk, LVE Novosibirsk, Ulyanovsk, Klimovsk

Each company/aresenal produces their own ammunition. Each company produces different cartridges to differing specs and components. The quality varies from aresenal to aresenal and even lot to lot. Saying its all Wolf and all dirty is innaccurate.

It is what it is, inexpensive mass produced cartridges. Some is actually top notch such as Vympel Golden Tiger 7.62x39 which is a superb, consistent cartridge

[2761377]

..ur a dipS#$% thinking that China is the bad guy in the Spratley's...when the US annexed the PI, it only left a lot of cronie-ism in it's wake along with Spanish-style colonial bull@#$ too...that's why the Philippines is light years behind it's cousins like Singapore and Malaysia...

the powers that operate the petro-dollar just want the Spratley's to lend credence and power to the petro-dollar, which is faltering due to Russian and China strengthening their own currencies...I for one don't want the Spratley's developed at all..no China, no Vietnam, no Phillippines..one false move like an oil spill and the whole South China Sea will be a virtual dead zone like the US Gulf Coast...

what the hell does any of this have to do with my point? The Spratlys are just one area in which the Chinese are expanding their strategic military power. I couldn't care less who's claims have merit. the other countries in the area are only important in that they are militarily easy pickings for China, unlike Nato countries would be for Russia.

China is a greater threat.