Russian Ammo

[mhotz]

I want to throw something out for general discussion.

I've heard a lot of talk lately about how Wolf ammo is inexpensive and is therefore being used by a growing number of shooters.

Personally, I don't care about Wolf's steel casings or copper-platted steel bullets or excessive fouling or failure to obturate sufficiently or being banned from ranges.

What I want to ask is why American gun enthusiasts are giving business to a Russian company (Tulskiy Patronniy Zavodwhile) while Putin is president?

As president, Putin has imposed severely undemocratic actions in Russia, brought his country to the brink of economic ruin, and has been dangerously aggressive militarily towards the rest of the western world.

As an American gun enthusiast I believe we should always try our best to support American companies first, and then our allies second.

Given the situation with Putin / Russia I would think we would buy Wolf ammo only as the very last life-or-death option.

The more business we deny Russian companies, the more incentive they have to rein in this loose cannon.

By the way, I also object to American companies and organizations waving the American flag but then turning around and supporting questionable foreign economies (e.g. the NRA buying hats that are clearly marked "Made in China").

[Spyder]

On a somewhat similar vein, why have no American countries started producing cheap steel cased ammo? (Or have they, and I'm not aware of it?!)

[Crusader]

has imposed severely undemocratic actions in Russia (USA), brought his country to the brink of economic ruin, and has been dangerously aggressive militarily towards the rest of the western world.

And Obama has done what exactly?

As far as a "Support American Jobs" argument - I agree. I rarely shoot foreign ammo. When I do, it's PRVI Partizan or ZQI ammo - definitely NOT Russian ammo. I do my best to purchase nothing but Federal since their ammo loading plant is down in Anoka just a couple hour drive south of me.

[walterSOBCHAK]

Not a Putin fan but I have nothing against the Russian people, their arms, or their cheap ammo. If I could find similarly priced American made ammo, Id probably buy it but there isnt.

[1bulletBarney]

Anyone who owns a AK/SKS platform firearm knows these weapons were designed to run comblock steelcased milsurp ammo. 7.62x39 comblock ammo is loaded with military style hard primers that works best in free floating fireing pins that these weapons have. Sure Wolf/Tula ammo is dirty and cheap, but it works.

Would OP support a ban on imported ammo? This plays into the antis/Obama master plan...

[major burnout]

I want to throw something out for general discussion.

I've heard a lot of talk lately about how Wolf ammo is inexpensive and is therefore being used by a growing number of shooters.

Personally, I don't care about Wolf's steel casings or copper-platted steel bullets or excessive fouling or failure to obturate sufficiently or being banned from ranges.

What I want to ask is why American gun enthusiasts are giving business to a Russian company (Tulskiy Patronniy Zavodwhile) while Putin is president?

As president, Putin has imposed severely undemocratic actions in Russia, brought his country to the brink of economic ruin, and has been dangerously aggressive militarily towards the rest of the western world.

As an American gun enthusiast I believe we should always try our best to support American companies first, and then our allies second.

Given the situation with Putin / Russia I would think we would buy Wolf ammo only as the very last life-or-death option.

The more business we deny Russian companies, the more incentive they have to rein in this loose cannon.

By the way, I also object to American companies and organizations waving the American flag but then turning around and supporting questionable foreign economies (e.g. the NRA buying hats that are clearly marked "Made in China").

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XsFR8DbSRQE

Obama is working for Putin. Sure Obama put sanctions on certain Russian companies. Yes those owners were hurt by the sanctions and had to sell their business. Who bought those companies? Obamas sanctions on russia did nothing but consolidate power for Putin.

Look at what happened in Iraq after Obama pulled out. Russia secured multi billion dollar arms and oil contracts. Look at libya. Before kadaffy was killed, russia had plans for a $700 million dollar arms contract. That contract was put on hold during the 'organic' muslim brotherhood uprising which included obamas cruise missiles. After kaddaffy was killed russia sold them $1.5B in arms. Who has control of the Libyan oil fields?? The libyan people?? No. Egypt same story. Syria, Obama backing the free syrian army has made the once proud syrian leader kiss putins pinky ring. Nice sea port in syria. I wonder who will control that when the 'civil' war is over. Ukraine, Obama has done nothing to stop putin from stealing the industrial complexs, fracking fields, farm land and warm sea port from Ukraine.

The best proof that obama is friends with putin is the fact that russian ammo and cheap russian vodka is still availble in the US. Sanctions LOL.

[Vlad 11]

What the heck are you talking about?

Wolf ammo is a U.S. company that sources ammunition worldwide. Most 7.62x39 wolf is now Ukrainian mfr

Good luck convincing AK, SKS or any gun owners to quit using lower cost imported steel ammo. Its not going to happen.

[mhotz]

[Spyder]

5) Why is there no US manufacturer making low cost steel cased ammo? I know Hornady (I think?) makes their steel case match stuff...but I would think that a Wolf equivalent would be very marketable here, if made here.

[GOLDEN GUN]

because most people don't think about who the ruler is and what they have done when purchasing ammo of another countries origin.. They think.. How can I save money on my purchase today, so that I can make a purchase tommorow.. Whether it be food diapers or gas.

Simple.. Cost and cost alone is more important

[dustoff31]

What it appears is that for some people taking a stance against an aggressor threatening world stability stops at the wallet.

4) Is no one willing to comment on the NRAs use of foreign manufacturers for their equipment?

Or did I miss something. If so, please point it out with fact and I will give a humble apology.

No, you didn't miss anything at all. You hit the nail on the head. (The bolded part) Assuming of course that they even see Russia as an aggressor or a potential threat.

This is rather like Wal Mart. So many people rail against it, say they won't, or refuse to admit that they shop there. Yet it remains the largest retailer in the world.

[EspoMan]

Well first off because I can get a thousand rounds off 7.62x39 for about $220 shipped as opposed to $500 for the American stuff. Second, I respect Putin 10 times more than ****Bama so I don't give a crap. You should focus more on what OUR government has been doing for the last 7+ years.

[2Aon2wheels]

Because a) And i say this as someone from Russia - I don't care anymore about politics in that country, so long as they are not sending nukes to my new homeland, America. b) Russian ammo is superior for storage and use in russian designed AK pattern rifles.

[1bulletBarney]

I want to throw something out for general discussion.

I've heard a lot of talk lately about how Wolf ammo is inexpensive and is therefore being used by a growing number of shooters.

Personally, I don't care about Wolf's steel casings or copper-platted steel bullets or excessive fouling or failure to obturate sufficiently or being banned from ranges.

What I want to ask is why American gun enthusiasts are giving business to a Russian company (Tulskiy Patronniy Zavodwhile) while Putin is president?
As president, Putin has imposed severely undemocratic actions in Russia, brought his country to the brink of economic ruin, and has been dangerously aggressive militarily towards the rest of the western world.

As an American gun enthusiast I believe we should always try our best to support American companies first, and then our allies second.Given the situation with Putin / Russia I would think we would buy Wolf ammo only as the very last life-or-death option.

The more business we deny Russian companies, the more incentive they have to rein in this loose cannon.

By the way, I also object to American companies and organizations waving the American flag but then turning around and supporting questionable foreign economies (e.g. the NRA buying hats that are clearly marked "Made in China").

Anyone who owns a AK/SKS platform firearm knows these weapons were designed to run comblock steelcased milsurp ammo. 7.62x39 comblock ammo is loaded with military style hard primers that works best in free floating fireing pins that these weapons have. Sure Wolf/Tula ammo is dirty and cheap, but it works.

Would OP support a ban on imported ammo? This plays into the antis/Obama master plan...

My post was pretty much directed at what I highlited in the OP.

As far as being a American gun owner supporting American companies, I own firearms made in USA, Germany, Austria, Italy, Yugoslavia, Russia, China, Switzerland. I support quality where ever it comes from.

As far as buying American made, that whole concept went away back when TV's changed from black and white to color.

I dont think the case of Wolf Ammo I order online will really change the political landscape in Eastern Europe.

[Vlad 11]

Again, not all Wolf products or steel cased ammo is Russian

I guess you are refering to meWhen you quote and base your assertions on erroneous and outdated wiki it shows you havent done your research. Wolf has not used ammunition from Tula plant in over 4 years. Cartridges from Tula are called Tulammo. Wolf 7.62x39 cartridges are currently from Barnaul and Lugansk Ukraine.

So your op doesnt make much. If you purchase Ukrainian Wolf you are supporting a US based co. which does not use products from Tula. Maybe you should be railing against Tulammo

2) This thread isn't about being against the Russian people. I asked a question about why American gun enthusiasts are supporting the Russian economy when the country. under Putin, is (1) provocoting NATO by flying bombers over allied European countries, (2) selling missiles to Iran, (3) intercepting and endangering U.S. military planes with Russian fighter jets over international waters, and (4) strongly supporting (if not directly fighting with) the rebels in Ukraine. Again, IMHO the more we squeeze Russian businesses the more incentive they have to rein in Putin.

Are you opposed to the fact that the U.S. gov purchases ammunition from Russian arsenals by the metric ton to supply Iraqi and Afghan forces?

3) There are American manufacturers who make 7.62x39 ammo (e.g.FEDERAL AMERICAN EAGLE7.62X39 124 GRAIN FMJ). So the argument that AK47 ammo has to be purchased from Russia is untrue. What it appears is that for some people taking a stance against an aggressor threatening world stability stops at the wallet.

A major attraction of the AK and SKS is the availability of inexpensive plinking ammo. Not many are looking to make a political statement. But if so Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania Ukraine all produce steelcase cartridges. Doesnt need to be Russia but doesnt need to be high cost brass cased premium ammo either

4) Is no one willing to comment on the NRAs use of foreign manufacturers for their equipment?

You dont own anything stamped Made in China?

Or did I miss something. If so, please point it out with fact and I will give a humble apology.