Our "great testing" is completely stupid

[SAN compnerd]

That is certainly true, but that's because one is $5000 a month whereas the other is $5000 a day.

But to say that sending gramps home to live with a family members completely unprepared to deal with a COVID19 patient is better than sending them back to SNFs or even LTCFs doesn't make sense.

Let's say an elderly family member suddenly got COVID19. He was in the hospital for two weeks, now he's been released to continue recovery. He's still quite infectious, and has to be on supplemental oxygen. You've got 48 hours to get ready. Would you be prepared to take care of him? Would you be able to keep yourself and your family from getting sick? Do you and your family have the basic expertise required? Are you able to stay home to take care of him for the next 4-6 weeks?

Maybe he could go to one of the field hospitals built at a cost of tens of millions of dollars that were taken down two months ago as they weren't needed. Or just keep him in the hospital until not contagious.

I just posted new studies that show reduced time to clear the virus with HCQ, so maybe use an effective treatment as well.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=24649753#post24649753

[duenor]

If the goal is to kill more people then we should promote sending infected patients back to their nursing homes where they are sure to spread it to others who are, actually, at high risk to die from it. Hey, we can't kill them twice.

I notice you didn't answer the question. No need to, I've lived through it and can tell you that even for a freaker like me for whom TEOTWAWKI was a 20 year hobby, home is a terrible place to put an infectious elderly person who also needs round the clock care. Chances are, the whole family will get sick, and then you roll the dice. Most likely you'll survive. Maybe you'll suffer lifelong injuries. Small chance you'll die. Do that for each family member.
There's a harsh calculus here, and in fact one that guys like SD and Scota have been advocating for - let the old people get it and die, because they've lived their life anyway and maybe they'll be dead soon anyway. Either that, or let the virus spread further into the community, crippling entire extended families as they struggle to take care of each other, overwhelming the system even worse. These are the kinds of choices families are forced to make when the government utterly fails at containment and counter-action.

Or just keep him in the hospital until not contagious.

Sure, at $1500-5000 a day. That's if the patient doesn't really need anything, just lies there perhaps with supplemental o2 and an IV. Medicare won't pay for that, nor will private insurance. What families are able to pay $1500-5000 a day out of pocket for gramps to recover for a couple weeks in the hospital?

[Den60]

I notice you didn't answer the question. No need to, I've lived through it and can tell you that even for a freaker like me for whom TEOTWAWKI was a 20 year hobby, home is a terrible place to put an infectious elderly person who also needs round the clock care. Chances are, the whole family will get sick, and then you roll the dice. Most likely you'll survive. Maybe you'll suffer lifelong injuries. Small chance you'll die. Do that for each family member.
There's a harsh calculus here, and in fact one that guys like SD and Scota have been advocating for - let the old people get it and die, because they've lived their life anyway and maybe they'll be dead soon anyway. Either that, or let the virus spread further into the community, crippling entire extended families as they struggle to take care of each other, overwhelming the system even worse. These are the kinds of choices families are forced to make when the government utterly fails at containment and counter-action.

Sure, at $1500-5000 a day. That's if the patient doesn't really need anything, just lies there perhaps with supplemental o2 and an IV. Medicare won't pay for that, nor will private insurance. What families are able to pay $1500-5000 a day out of pocket for gramps to recover for a couple weeks in the hospital?

Again, sending an infectious person to a nursing care facility is signing the death warrants for many others - they are not safe when it comes to containing infectious diseases and, despite accounting for some .45% of the population, some 50% of the deaths are attributed to people who were nursing home patients. At least some states, not those run by liberals like Cuomo, segregated those patients positive for the disease from those who were not positive and sent those positive to facilities for those with the disease. I really don't care how you spin it, or how you try to paint me, but forcing nursing homes to accept infected patients killed a lot more than they saved - we are talking a multitude more.

Some 99% to 99.75% of those who contract this disease survive. If you are over 65 and have something like diabetes, emphysema, COPD, or other cardiovascular conditions then this disease stands a good chance of killing you. Of course, so does the flu.

As far as to answer the question, we brought my dad home to die 5 years ago. Hospice is wonderful. My mom has said she will never go to a nursing home and, at 85, says if this disease takes her then she has had a good life.

[gimebakmybulits]

That is certainly true, but that's because one is $5000 a month whereas the other is $5000 a day.

But to say that sending gramps home to live with a family members completely unprepared to deal with a COVID19 patient is better than sending them back to SNFs or even LTCFs doesn't make sense.

Let's say an elderly family member suddenly got COVID19. He was in the hospital for two weeks, now he's been released to continue recovery. He's still quite infectious, and has to be on supplemental oxygen. You've got 48 hours to get ready. Would you be prepared to take care of him? Would you be able to keep yourself and your family from getting sick? Do you and your family have the basic expertise required? Are you able to stay home to take care of him for the next 4-6 weeks?

It doesn't make sense to you because you've spent your time trying to spread bull**** and fear. As for the "basic expertise", if you haven't learned that by now from the vast array of good information available to people willing to do actual research then you are probably going to get sick.

As for me, absolutely no issues with taking in my parents and helping them get through it if one or both were found to be positive.

[duenor]

It doesn't make sense to you because you've spent your time trying to spread bull**** and fear. As for the "basic expertise", if you haven't learned that by now from the vast array of good information available to people willing to do actual research then you are probably going to get sick.

As for me, absolutely no issues with taking in my parents and helping them get through it if one or both were found to be positive.

Good luck with that. You have kids? Married? Better take those into consideration too.

Sending sick elderly back to SNFs or LTCFs is the right call to make. Call it BS if you want, it's easy to talk about things when you don't have to back up your arguments with solid evidence or aren't actually having to deal with the situation. Kind of like those guys who talk about how they would do this or do that in a given situation.

[duenor]

Again, sending an infectious person to a nursing care facility is signing the death warrants for many others - they are not safe when it comes to containing infectious diseases and, despite accounting for some .45% of the population, some 50% of the deaths are attributed to people who were nursing home patients. At least some states, not those run by liberals like Cuomo, segregated those patients positive for the disease from those who were not positive and sent those positive to facilities for those with the disease. I really don't care how you spin it, or how you try to paint me, but forcing nursing homes to accept infected patients killed a lot more than they saved - we are talking a multitude more.

Some 99% to 99.75% of those who contract this disease survive. If you are over 65 and have something like diabetes, emphysema, COPD, or other cardiovascular conditions then this disease stands a good chance of killing you. Of course, so does the flu.

As far as to answer the question, we brought my dad home to die 5 years ago. Hospice is wonderful. My mom has said she will never go to a nursing home and, at 85, says if this disease takes her then she has had a good life.

Segregating to facilities that are infected/not infected is a great idea but in practice difficult to implement. These facilities are not state run, they are private companies and to do that you would need to know two things 1) which ones have infections and which don't, which wasn't that easy to determine back in Feb 2) both the facilities agreeing to take the patient and the insurance companies or families willing to foot the bill, which is not insignificant.

it is absolutely true that sending infected patients back to their SNFs puts the other residents at great risk. however, 1) those residents were already exposed since that's where the patient came from, which is kind of like your segregation description 2) it's either that or send them home to families who are unlikely to be able to take care of them without everyone at home getting infected. it's the lesser of two evils, especially given the woeful state of preparedness the entire country was in during Spring 2020, and indeed continues to be in with regards to infection mitigation for the general public. CFR of COVID19 for the USA is 3.2% according to Johns Hopkins. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality.

I've done hospice twice. I agree that it is wonderful and a much more humane way to pass on than clinging to life attached to a variety of tubes. But most elderly covid19 cases would not be hospice, at least not at first. You don't know who is going to get it bad or be able to fight it off. I maintain that the average family is poorly prepared to care for, and remain uninfected by, a covid19 patient requiring round the clock care.

[Dvrjon]

meanwhile, in Korea, testing is done in six hours and results via email within 48 hours at most. in taiwan, the government has invested $71million into a new test that will take 60 minutes.

[Endless]

We have administered something like 65million tests. The administration loves to talk about how great a job we've done with testing: "President Donald J. Trump and His Administration Have Created The Best Covid-19 Testing System In The World", the White House declares on its website. and yet, for the most part, it's all wasted money. the results are junk - not because they are inaccurate, but because they are way too late. even 2-3 days is worthless if you're trying to make sure that people can effectively make changes to their life to prevent the spread of the disease. and most people aren't even getting it back within 48 hours, let alone 12.

but it's not going to change. currently, the cares act ensures that nobody who has any kind of insurance pays anything for tests. so the testing company gets paid, full value, regardless of whether the test result comes back in 12 hours of 12 days. there's no incentive, really, for the labs to be efficient. they just keep raking in the money, do a mediocre job, and there's no consequences for them.

our "great businessman" in chief ought to take a harder look at his "Best COVID19 testing system in the world". taxpayers and insurance companies are basically being forced to pay full price for worthless goods. "best testing system in the world" is a lie.

meanwhile, in Korea, testing is done in six hours and results via email within 48 hours at most. in taiwan, the government has invested $71million into a new test that will take 60 minutes.

Lol

My gf lives and works in South Korea and she flat out said in the beginning it was a **** show just like the United States for months. The liberal media flat out lied just like they always do. South Korea was on lockdown just like China and she couldn't go anywhere except to and from Samsung Pharmaceuticals. That was it. So please stop painting Korea as some golden standard when, regardless of what you read or see in the news was a lie and crap show for months until they got it under control.

We had it under control until Memorial Day, 4th of July and the rioting. That's why we are back to March 2020 ladies and gents. Stupid, privileged kids put us right back to March 2020. Sad but true.

I am sick and tired of Americans always complaining about everything and they have rights blah blah blah. If this was Ebola I guarantee NO American citizens would have been let back into this country and we would have locked down all borders. We trained in the military for exactly this scenario. And we instead got the corona virus and we fell apart. It's clear to the entire world we have a fragile infrastructure, poor health system and too many chiefs and not enough Indians.

[duenor]

What does size have to do with how quickly their labs are able to process a test? If anything, our much larger population and far greater GDP should be able to produce faster testing, not longer due to advantage of scale and funding. With 6+ trillion being poured out, you'd figure we could build a few labs to do tests with that money.

As for cultural differences, I'm well aware. Neither of those two countries, or Germany for that matter, is blessed with anti vaxxers, "freedom to breathe" ignoramuses, or "masks don't work" geniuses.

[duenor]

Lol

My gf lives and works in South Korea and she flat out said in the beginning it was a **** show just like the United States for months. The liberal media flat out lied just like they always do. South Korea was on lockdown just like China and she couldn't go anywhere except to and from Samsung Pharmaceuticals.

Didn't take them very long, did it? They figured out what to do and did it. They aren't sitting around 8 months in and still watching their numbers keep ramping up. They aren't #1 in the world for most cases and most deaths. And yes, they locked down the place to get it under control. Unlike our version of "lockdown".

We had it under control until Memorial Day, 4th of July and the rioting. That's why we are back to March 2020 ladies and gents. Stupid, privileged kids put us right back to March 2020. Sad but true.

Nope. look at the infection numbers for May 31. 21,461 cases a day. Does that look like "under control" to you? We were perhaps starting to get a handle on it, but we were no where near "under control". Unfortunately quite a few mayors and governors were likewise deluded, including CA, with expected results.

I am sick and tired of Americans always complaining about everything and they have rights blah blah blah. If this was Ebola I guarantee NO American citizens would have been let back into this country and we would have locked down all borders. We trained in the military for exactly this scenario. And we instead got the corona virus and we fell apart. It's clear to the entire world we have a fragile infrastructure, poor health system and too many chiefs and not enough Indians.

If this was Ebola we wouldn't be having this problem. People would be dying so quickly, and the infected so clearly obvious, that you wouldn't have people claiming the virus is just the flu or doubting that people are actually getting sick. Do you remember your NBC training in the military? What goes through your mind, I wonder, when people try to tell you that it's impossible for them to function while wearing a surgical mask.

You don't have too many chiefs, you just have lousy ones.

[sd_shooter]

What does size have to do with how quickly their labs are able to process a test? If anything, our much larger population and far greater GDP should be able to produce faster testing, not longer due to advantage of scale and funding. With 6+ trillion being poured out, you'd figure we could build a few labs to do tests with that money.

Agree on this point. We're seemingly pouring Trillions into the sand - you'd think we'd be able to come up with a covid test that works like a pregnancy swab. Lick it: turns red, you have the covid

As for cultural differences, I'm well aware. Neither of those two countries, or Germany for that matter, is blessed with anti vaxxers, "freedom to breathe" ignoramuses, or "masks don't work" geniuses.

So Sweden must be filled with these geniuses as well. While the freakers will call Sweden a disaster since a handful of geriatrics died, in reality it was a success. They never closed down and are now free to live.

BTW all this *****ing is for nothing. We already have this under control. The only thing missing is for the federal and state governments to make this declaration!

Remember, 'cases' don't mean much and this virus is very Flu-like as a threat to society. We completely ignore the Flu but for some reason we've allowed this bug to turn our lives upside down. But I know you refuse to see this so I'm not expecting to the scales to fall from your eyes

What's the top infectious disease in the world? TB. Are we masking up for that? How many die from it daily? 4400 1.6M per year. No biggie. But covid? Run for the fallout shelters!

https://www.unaids.org/en/keywords/tuberculosis-tb

[Den60]

Segregating to facilities that are infected/not infected is a great idea but in practice difficult to implement. These facilities are not state run, they are private companies and to do that you would need to know two things 1) which ones have infections and which don't, which wasn't that easy to determine back in Feb 2) both the facilities agreeing to take the patient and the insurance companies or families willing to foot the bill, which is not insignificant.

it is absolutely true that sending infected patients back to their SNFs puts the other residents at great risk. however, 1) those residents were already exposed since that's where the patient came from, which is kind of like your segregation description 2) it's either that or send them home to families who are unlikely to be able to take care of them without everyone at home getting infected. it's the lesser of two evils, especially given the woeful state of preparedness the entire country was in during Spring 2020, and indeed continues to be in with regards to infection mitigation for the general public. CFR of COVID19 for the USA is 3.2% according to Johns Hopkins. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality.

I've done hospice twice. I agree that it is wonderful and a much more humane way to pass on than clinging to life attached to a variety of tubes. But most elderly covid19 cases would not be hospice, at least not at first. You don't know who is going to get it bad or be able to fight it off. I maintain that the average family is poorly prepared to care for, and remain uninfected by, a covid19 patient requiring round the clock care.

You understand that those being sent back weren't sick enough to require a hospital stay, right? If they were then they would have stayed in the hospital. You can argue all you want but the facts are on my side - .45% of the population, those living in nursing homes, have accounted for nearly half of our fatalities so sending infected people to those places is, was, and will be the absolute wrong thing to do.

[Scota4570]

Mass testing healthy asymptomatic people is being manipulated. IF the number of new cases goes down simply test a bunch more people and process backlogged test kits. Then you have created more new cases. The downward trend is erased and the restrictions are redoubled.

The testing reporting criteria is muddled. Are we getting numbers for active infections or antibody tests? Both? Other countries test only sick people. So, our test testing has no comparison to them.

[Dvrjon]

What does size have to do with how quickly their labs are able to process a test? If anything, our much larger population and far greater GDP should be able to produce faster testing, not longer due to advantage of scale and funding. With 6+ trillion being poured out, you'd figure we could build a few labs to do tests with that money.

As for cultural differences, I'm well aware. Neither of those two countries, or Germany for that matter, is blessed with anti vaxxers, "freedom to breathe" ignoramuses, or "masks don't work" geniuses.

[numpty]

Typical right-wing extremist, who can't understand facts and stats, and then in childish frustration resorts to BS Fox News style LOL!

The facts are that Trump screwed up and Obama didn't, though that could've easily been reversed if Obama had treated SARS-CoV-2 the same way they treated H1N1 in 2009 - 2010.

Read it slowly a few times, you'll get it bagman, i.e. the viruses are different, and as such they require different responses.

Lol, you're not hiding your bias very well. It's funny that Dem politicians, Fauci, "health experts" etc. screwed up when saying Trump was screwing up. And that they were wrong before they were right before they were wrong again. In fact, we've been hearing about T-cells for a while and now Fauci is talking about it? What else is coming?

I still laugh at the posters that want to blame Trump for everything regardless of where responsibilities should rest.

We have governors and mayors that tells the Feds stay out of our sandbox e.g. ice. Then those same career politicians want blame Trump to run for every contrived bad aspect of something like this.

FIFY

And this all became political when Biden called Trump a xenophobe and Pelosi told people to come on down to Chinatown everything is fine.