Advantage of a Semi-Auto?

[ajl2121]

Hey all...
I have been seriously contemplating a decision to buy a semi-auto 12 gauge. I have no experience with a semi-auto, but do own a mossberg 500.

When shooting my 500, I noticed that it would be much more comfortable for me if my off-hand was closer to my shooting hand. Also, a shorter length of pull would be nice as well. However, with a pump, you can only shoot the weapon with the forend in the "away" position...Thus, it leaves a mandatory gap of the reciever plus the distance that the forend travels to load the next round.

My question is, do semi-auto's have a shorter (about 4 inches) distance between where your hands can be placed? I assume they don't need to be pumped, so is the action stationary?

[BlueOvalBruin]

With an auto you can put your support hand pretty much anywhere you want as long as you can still control the gun. Also, try to keep your fingers away from the bolt handle while the gun cycles. I shoot a Beretta xtrema2 semi-auto and half of my hand is under the forend and the rear half of my hand is under the receiver. I suppose it all depends on what you plan to shoot with the gun, though.

Edit: Oh, there's also the reduced felt recoil with a semi.

[maxicon]

I'm a fan of semi-autos for defense guns, as there's less to go wrong in the heat of the moment. I also prefer them for fun shooting, due to the light recoil, but I'm recoil sensitive. I don't take my pumps out so much since getting a couple of semi-autos.

A defense-configured pump is generally cheaper than a defense-configured semi, and there are more options available.

Either is reliable if you've put enough rounds of your preferred defense ammo through it to work out any issues, and ease of clearing jams depends on the individual shotgun design more than the general style.

A pump is dependent on your working the action correctly, and if you're in a physically tight spot or your weak arm hits something during pumping, you can have a shortstroke. Pumps can only be worked 2 handed, barring Hollywood techniques.

A semi-auto is point-and-shoot, and can be fired one-handed if something's wrong with your other hand, though there's an increased risk of jams there with inertia-operated guns. There's a potential reliability difference in such a situation between inertia- and gas-operated models, so it takes a bit of research. Again, practice makes perfect.

If cost is a factor, it's hard to beat a pump.

For simplicity of use, it's hard to beat a semi.

Either way, you need to practice regularly and put hundreds of rounds of your chosen defense load through the gun to make sure it's going to work well and your muscle memory is dialed in.

Somebody's sure to say something about the clack-clack of the pump making intruders mess their pants and run away, but you could get the same effect with a recording...

[brando]

Semis are great, but not always reliable with all ammo. A small negative, for sure.

[bohoki]

Semis are great, but not always reliable with all ammo. A small negative, for sure.

as for pump arm placement my 1200 win came with an extended foregrip so you can hold it any place ahead of the reciever

i changed it to a short one when i had one problem with a shell that hung up on the follower and i couldnt reach under to help the lift arm

[Pulsar]

Semis are great, but not always reliable with all ammo. A small negative, for sure.

Another negative to add is that a lot of semi's won't cycle correctly if you don't have the gun firmly in your shoulder, no firing from the hip allowed.

[AngelDecoys]

Train with a semi-auto pistol, train with a semi-auto rifle, train with a semi-auto shotgun. The machanics and training will be almost exact for each platform.

Only thing to say negative about a semi-auto shotgun is IF you are left handed, find one where the safety can be swapped to the other side. As a lefty, its a big negative.

[smle-man]

Another negative to add is that a lot of semi's won't cycle correctly if you don't have the gun firmly in your shoulder, no firing from the hip allowed.

My Remington 1187 Police will cycle from the hip, held sideways, held upside down. It is a completely reliable gun. It works fine with light loads and full power rounds.

[-hanko]

My Remington 1187 Police will cycle from the hip, held sideways, held upside down. It is a completely reliable gun. It works fine with light loads and full power rounds.

As will my 11-87 SP, 2 1100's, and a Beretta 1201. You might consider having your checked over by a good shotgun smith.

-hanko

[duenor]

Another negative to add is that a lot of semi's won't cycle correctly if you don't have the gun firmly in your shoulder, no firing from the hip allowed.

I think he is referring to benelli m1s90s... and it is likely that he does not have one. the m1 will not cycle properly when it is NOT allowed to recoil backwards (he's got it backwards).

ie., if you let your body move with the recoil, or shoot from the hip, you are allowing recoil to push the gun backwards. this is necessary for the inertia system to work.

but if you stick the butt of the gun against a brick wall, for instance, so that it is not allowed to recoil backwards, it will not cycle properly (but still fire the shot chambered).

[Fuzzy5]

There are semi-auto shotguns that can be "limp-wristed," including some gas guns, though I would think that this would be more of a problem with recoil-operated guns.

Duenor is right about the Benelli inertia system: it requires the entire gun to recoil backward with a certain velocity in order for the action to cycle, which is why hanging a lot of accessories off an inertia gun can cause it to malfunction. In fact, using a hard push-pull technique for a rapid-fire drill, I managed to accidentally turn an M1 Super 90 into a single-shot. I thought the gun was getting too dirty, but every time I didn't push-pull, it cycled fine. On two of my strings, I had to manually cycle the bolt after each of the seven rounds I fired. This was with low-recoil slugs and I don't think it would have happened with more powerful loads.

[duenor]

The M1 is superb when used the way it was intended to. To wit, this means that users should experiment thoroughly before attempting to:

1. use tactical light fore-ends (including surefire)
2. side saddles, lasers, extended tubes, or buttcuffs
3. low recoil ammunition

when using standard 12 00 with either the straight or PG factory stock & +3 or +5 factory tubes, my benelli has never failed. the rifle actually requires only about two inches of rearward movement in order to cycle.

there are some that argue that the above is proof of the m1s unsuitability as an HD firearm. that is incorrect - the m1 was designed for users who know that different tasks should require different firearms, and have the capacity to own multiple specially designated arms.

[Vin496]

I took my brand new M4 out last week. I took an assortment of ammo.

Fiochi rifled slug low recoil
Winchester target #8
Some BBB, I had laying around
and some 3" mag shells

As expected rifle worked with everything perfectly except the #8 target load, it would cycle a shell or 2 then FTE, pull handle back shoot FTE etc.

At this point with less than 60 rounds through it, I wouldn't use it for light target loads, but this shotgun was never designed for light target loads, it's a combat shotgun. It may eat those up after a few hundred rounds, but I really didn't buy it to shoot target loads.

I would trust it 100% with HD loads, normal and low recoil.

[Pulsar]

As will my 11-87 SP, 2 1100's, and a Beretta 1201. You might consider having your checked over by a good shotgun smith.

-hanko

Sorry, I had to laugh. I am a fulltime gunsmith by profession, I do almost 100% of the Remington warranty work for the South West and California, and every Sportsmans Warehouse in the country. Probably work on about 5-10 1100/11-87's a week. I know for a fact that a lot of the 11-87's (usually the supermags) won't cycle properly if your shoulder isn't in it when shooting a light load.

But mainly I was reffering to most of the inertia operated systems, like the Browning A-5, which will almost invariably fail to cycle if you don't put your shoulder in it. It's still one of my favorite shotguns though.

[duenor]

The Browning A5 is inertia based? Hm. I have a Mod 11 which is very similar.... yes, I do believe you are right. The barrel assembly recoils into the receiver... or something like that. If you are a fulltime gunsmith, would you mind me adding you to my KINTF thread (see my sig line)? not too many gunsmiths there.