Just pre-ordered a Kel-Tec KSG !!!!!!!

[F8ality]

Got to play with these at the shot show and they are pretty bad *****! The magazine tube does not switch between tubes automatically you have to manually flip a selector switch on the bottom of the gun in order to go between the tubes. The rifle is light weight (unloaded), comfortable and everything feels very solid on it. I will definately be picking one up as soon as I can.

[sig220]

ya dont wanna go to jail for a aw charge, you cant buy any more guns after that and you get butt sex

[hcbr]

damn 614 is reasonable, but from glockworld, i hope you get your order because they have a bad track record on not sending out stuff on time.

[Soldier415]

This is the flyer I picked up at Turners San Berdoo....



That is why I did not give a deposit. They were obviously raping people at $880.

Just curious as to how charging MSRP is raping someone?

Not to mention Keltec has raised the price to dealers twice since originally marketing the KSG.

[Mr_Monkeywrench]

I think im just going to order mine from turners if I can't get it from riflegear.

[joeyant]

Just curious as to how charging MSRP is raping someone?

Not to mention Keltec has raised the price to dealers twice since originally marketing the KSG.

You obviously buy cars at the over inflated sticker prices at the dealer's lots..............

And don't worry. Once the initial hoopla is over, and once the first 500 buyers at $880 have discovered all the kinks and worked them out with KelTec, I will be purchasing one.

But it won't be from you, it won't be from Turner's, and it won't cost me $880.......

[Kestryll]

Pointless argument removed.

A) It is a pump action shotgun, the laws regarding AWs does not apply.

B) The ammunition feeding device is integral and not removable so you are not buying or importing a high capacity magazine.
If that were the case think about this:
Even .22 magazines over ten rounds are barred from import in to California, you can not buy a 25 round mag for your 10/22.
Marlin Model 60's are sold regularly and PPT'ed regularly in California with a fixed tubular magazine that holds over ten rounds.
This Kel-Tec has an internal tubular magazine that holds eithe 7 or 14 rounds depending on how you look at it which make it's magazine the same as the Marlin Model 60's with the added exception that it is built in to a pump action firearm rather than in to a semi-automatic firearm.

[Anchors]

I will probably wait until they are out for a while and they dust settles and then buy one on CG marketplace haha

[TRICKSTER]

Pointless argument removed.

A) It is a pump action shotgun, the laws regarding AWs does not apply.

B) The ammunition feeding device is integral and not removable so you are not buying or importing a high capacity magazine.
If that were the case think about this:
Even .22 magazines over ten rounds are barred from import in to California, you can not buy a 25 round mag for your 10/22.
Marlin Model 60's are sold regularly and PPT'ed regularly in California with a fixed tubular magazine that holds over ten rounds.
This Kel-Tec has an internal tubular magazine that holds eithe 7 or 14 rounds depending on how you look at it which make it's magazine the same as the Marlin Model 60's with the added exception that it is built in to a pump action firearm rather than in to a semi-automatic firearm.

The Marlin Model 60 falls under the 22 cal. exception. The other exception is tubular fed lever action which the Kel-Tec is not.

12020 (c)(25) As used in this section, "large-capacity
magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity
to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to
include any of the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so
that itcannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action
firearm.

If you say there will be no problems with these and the hi cap law, that's good enough for me. I will also take this to mean that if there is a problem, CGF will be there to provide legal defense.

[TheKlawMan]

Pointless argument removed.

A) It is a pump action shotgun, the laws regarding AWs does not apply.

B) The ammunition feeding device is integral and not removable so you are not buying or importing a high capacity magazine.
If that were the case think about this:
Even .22 magazines over ten rounds are barred from import in to California, you can not buy a 25 round mag for your 10/22.
Marlin Model 60's are sold regularly and PPT'ed regularly in California with a fixed tubular magazine that holds over ten rounds.
This Kel-Tec has an internal tubular magazine that holds eithe 7 or 14 rounds depending on how you look at it which make it's magazine the same as the Marlin Model 60's with the added exception that it is built in to a pump action firearm rather than in to a semi-automatic firearm.

A) I am not taliking about an Assault Weapon. You seem to think that California's law on "large capacity magazines" does not apply to pump shotguns. My read is the law is not limited to semis.

" Any person in this state who does any of the following
is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year
or in the state prison:
(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be
manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or
exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity
magazine."


The issue is what is a large capacity magazine. PC section 12020 goes on the define one.

" As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any
ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10
rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it
cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action
firearm."

This brings us to your better point, which is the argument that since the rounds are stored internally you are not buying a large capacity magazine. I believe you are confusing apples and oranges; a magazine that is in fact part of a weapon with a detachable magazine. I am not talking about detachable magazines.

With due respect, your mention of the Marlin 60 makes absoluely no sense in this conext, as the above large capacity magazine definition expressly excludes a .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.

Furthermore, the fact that subsectioin (25) discusses tubular magazines makes it clear that this section of the penal code was intended to and does apply to tubular magazines such as those of the keltec.

[Cokebottle]

Magazine tubes welded to the gun, all that's required to change over is throwing a switch, I wouldn't want to be the guy testing that theory in court. Remember, dealers were selling the Taurus Judge and DOJ now states that they are short barrel shotguns. I would want CA DOJ clarification before I bought one.

Wouldn't matter as a buyer anyways. It's not illegal to purchase or possess a "high cap"... it's illegal to sell or offer to sell. The legal liability would be on the seller. If they are declared illegal, the seller would have to issue refunds if the DOJ required the return/surrender of the guns.

I love it... ya, it would be heavy fully loaded, but I love the idea of 7 rounds of 00 buck and 7 slugs available... and this will hold the 3" cartridges!

Turner's Chino Hills is asking for a $200 deposit. I'm very tempted, but since delivery won't be until fall, I'm just going to wait until I can get one OTC at Riflegear.

[TheKlawMan]

Wouldn't matter as a buyer anyways. It's not illegal to purchase or possess a "high cap"... it's illegal to sell or offer to sell. The legal liability would be on the seller. If they are declared illegal, the seller would have to issue refunds if the DOJ required the return/surrender of the guns.

I love it... ya, it would be heavy fully loaded, but I love the idea of 7 rounds of 00 buck and 7 slugs available... and this will hold the 3" cartridges!

Turner's Chino Hills is asking for a $200 deposit. I'm very tempted, but since delivery won't be until fall, I'm just going to wait until I can get one OTC at Riflegear.

I think you are right about possession not being illegal. I also think that reputable dealers would refund your money if the keltec is found to be illegal, unless they go BK. I doubt that the DA would go after buyers, but even if purchasing is not illegal I wonder if the purcahser isn't going to be liable for aiding and abetting or conspiracy. I do not think they should be, because if the legislature had meant to make purchasing illegal it should have said so in the statute but it did not.

[TRICKSTER]

Wouldn't matter as a buyer anyways. It's not illegal to purchase or possess a "high cap"...

Your right, it's not illegal to possess a hi-cap. However, you may be committing a crime by knowingly ordering or purchasing one. Since
Kestryll does not want this debated here, I will leave it up to you to research.

[Kestryll]

A couple of points:

If you say there will be no problems with these and the hi cap law, that's good enough for me. I will also take this to mean that if there is a problem, CGF will be there to provide legal defense.

A) I would advise against taking my word as proof unless stated that this is info vetted through CGF and the legal team used by CGF, this is why there is a disclaimer in my signature.
B) Per the disclaimer in my signature, unless I specifically state that I am speaking for CGF or Calguns, LLC the opinions expressed are my own and nothing more.

Since Kestryll does not want this debated here, I will leave it up to you to research.

You are right to a degree, the discussion of it's legality is much more suited to the 2A forum than the Shotgun forum, and from the sounds of it this is a discussion that needs to happen.

The other thing, and more pertinent from the aspect of my position as Moderator, is that where ever it is discussed it needs to be done so in a much more civil manner than was occurring here.

[TheKlawMan]

A couple of points:


A) I would advise against taking my word as proof unless stated that this is info vetted through CGF and the legal team used by CGF, this is why there is a disclaimer in my signature.
B) Per the disclaimer in my signature, unless I specifically state that I am speaking for CGF or Calguns, LLC the opinions expressed are my own and nothing more.


You are right to a degree, the discussion of it's legality is much more suited to the 2A forum than the Shotgun forum, and from the sounds of it this is a discussion that needs to happen.

The other thing, and more pertinent from the aspect of my position as Moderator, is that where ever it is discussed it needs to be done so in a much more civil manner than was occurring here.

I disagree that the discussion of the keltec's legality is more suited for the 2A forum. If you want to discuss the constitutionality of the CA penal code section making the sale of large capacity magazines illegal, that belongs there, but the discussion of the same codes application to the keltec belongs here, where people discuss the merits of depositing money for a gun that may turn out never to be sold in this state.