.22lr 100 yd target shooting advice

[stretch2]

I'm looking for advice / tips / hints to help improve my groups at 100 yards. I've had my rifle for a couple months now and my groups have improved to the point where I am consistently getting similar to the attached photo. I'd like to do better. So I've broken it down into the areas I think I can improve on. The range I shoot at is outdoors and includes benches, so I always shoot from a bench. I'm on a really tight budget, so spending mega bucks on gear is out of the question.



Rifle - I have a Savage Mk II FV. I know there are better rifles out there, but I am convinced that this rifle is capable of better shots than I am so have no plans to replace it (although I might replace the plastic stock with a better, wood stock), at least not until I've tried whatever else I can to improve.

Optics - I'm using a cheap, but usable 3-9x40 scope and have already ordered a better 6-24x44. Mostly because I'm getting older and seeing those little holes in the paper is not so easy.

Rest - I'm currently using a cheap Harris clone bipod, but have been told I might be better off using bags instead. Opinions?

Shooting - Of late I've been working on my breathing and not moving the rifle while squeezing the trigger. I've already adjusted the trigger to its lightest setting but it still seems pretty hard (maybe 3 lbs?). I watched a video of an expert bench rest marksman and got some tips from that. Any other advice?

Wind - I've not really focused on this at all, but my understanding is that a .22 projectile is very easily influenced by the wind. The wind at our range is typically pretty light (less than 5 mph) but its direction changes almost every couple of minutes. Any tips on how to judge the wind down range and how to compensate for it?

Ammo - This is probably my biggest obstacle since .22lr ammo is so difficult to find. I've managed to accumulate a couple thousand rounds of ammo, problem is it's from a half dozen manufacturers and about a dozen different makes. I was shooting Remmington bulk last week and had the scope sighted in for that ammo. When I ran out of that I switched to Winchester Hyperspeed. It took about a dozen rounds to really sight in the scope and I found that I had to change the scope settings for about an 18" difference in elevation. That big difference surprised me. Considering how hard it is to find .22lr ammo in the first place and besides wasting ammo to sight in the scope each time I go to the range, is there anything else I can do?

[Rizzo]

Due to the "get it while you can" issue, I've also accumulated quite a bit of 22LR ammo from different mfgs and also various types from the same mfg.

This is a good opportunity to check them all out and see which one(s) your rifle likes. Then, concentrate on buying those that work for your rifle.

Myself, I zero my 10/22 at 50 yards with good 'ol reliable CCI Mini Mags and then shoot 10 round groups at 50, 75 and 100 yards to see how the Point of Impact changes within brands of ammo and also see which has the tightest grouping for my rifle.
It's pretty interesting to see those differences.
Some brands were all over the place and some had pretty tight groupings.

Have fun and good luck.

[defcon]

im also having the same problem. im using a cheap $40 Bushnell Banner scope 3x9-50 and its hard for me to see at 100yds

i need to invest in a better scope.

ive seen some shooters who dont wrap their thumb around the pistol grip.

[Teeko]

22lr ammo varies tremendously in accuracy

[x-007]

I don't mean to sound like I'm bragging, but I can closely duplicate that loose pattern at 100 yds with one of my Ruger 10/22's WITHOUT optics.

Savage has always been known to have excellent barrels. Your rifle (a couple of months old?) may need some more "break-in" rounds through the barrel. Also, cleaning is absolutely necessary, and finding out what ammo your rifle likes the best. If I owned a Savage rifle EXACTLY like yours, it might like "Brand A" the best, but yours might not.

Optics are very often a big problem, and using a variable 'scope usually causes problems with adjusting from the lowest to the highest variable magnifications. If you're going to get a better 'scope, go ahead, then try to find out what magnification point is best. Otherwise, many would suggest that you get a fixed power 'scope....especially if you're going to only shoot at 100 yd targets.

Wind does affect the flight of the light weight .22 projectile, but so do ground and air temperatures (thermal conditions).

I've been an avid shooter for close to 60 years, and the old eyes just aren't what they used to be, but I still use iron sights quite a bit. Try your rifle without optics for a while, just to find out if you can get close to that same pattern.

Lastly, and even though I've been a shooter for a long, long time, I often have one of my shooting buddies monitor the way I shoot. You MAY have picked up a bad habit along the way without knowing it, so having a knowledgeable shooter watching how you shoot might benefit you.

[RandyD]

I have shot .22 LR Smallbore prone matches since 1973. Those matches have us shooting at 100 yards. Equipment such as a quality rifle, ammo, spotting scope and other miscellaneous items will assist you in improving your results.

The factors that you need to learn, are about holding the rifle properly and the wind. Changing the cheek pressure, how tight and where you hold the rifle will change your impact at 100 yards. Experiment with this and you will realize quickly how significant these factors can be.

The wind factor of shooting a .22 LR at 100 yards has been compared to shooting a .308 at 1000 yards (Palma shooters routinely comment on this observation). Learning how to shoot in the wind will lead to smaller groups. There are books and videos on this. A 5 MPH wind will throw a .22 projectile out of the 10 ring if you are not watching the wind. Most competitive shooters look for the prevailing condition (wind velocity and direction) and sight in for that condition and then only shoot when that condition is present. With learning how to read the wind, you need to learn how to read the mirage, which will show a change in wind direction or velocity before the range flags show the change of conditions.

Have fun experimenting.

[appagohm]

I purchased a wealth of 22lr blazers before the craze, and am using a colt m4 uramex with a cheap scope(none adjustable 4x32) and I get tight groups at 100yards. 2 - 2.5 inch groups.

Keep using one type of ammo, or similar fps ammo. I usually just place a flag where my target is on windy days, no flag on mild wind, using sand bags on a bench. Last time I was out my wife (who has no experience) was breaking clay at 100yards without a problem.

[sofbak]

I'm looking for advice / tips / hints to help improve my groups at 100 yards. I've had my rifle for a couple months now and my groups have improved to the point where I am consistently getting similar to the attached photo. I'd like to do better. So I've broken it down into the areas I think I can improve on. The range I shoot at is outdoors and includes benches, so I always shoot from a bench. I'm on a really tight budget, so spending mega bucks on gear is out of the question.

Rifle - I have a Savage Mk II FV. I know there are better rifles out there, but I am convinced that this rifle is capable of better shots than I am so have no plans to replace it (although I might replace the plastic stock with a better, wood stock), at least not until I've tried whatever else I can to improve.

WRT to the stock-yes replace it with a wooden version. Boyd's makes the wooden stocks for the MK II series, and there are several versions available from Boyd's website.

Along with the new stock, invest in a DIP bottom metal change out kit, and a reasonably repeatable torque wrench. These MK II's are sensitive to the torque on the bottom action screws, and the serious shooters have found that tuning the action screw torque makes a substantial difference in precision shooting.

Optics - I'm using a cheap, but usable 3-9x40 scope and have already ordered a better 6-24x44. Mostly because I'm getting older and seeing those little holes in the paper is not so easy.

Going to an optic with a larger objective lens will help a lot too.

Rest - I'm currently using a cheap Harris clone bipod, but have been told I might be better off using bags instead. Opinions?

Bags would be better, but rifle balance will help a lot too. When I changed out to the wooden stock, I also bored two 3/4" dia holes in the butt. Packed them with lead shot to get the rifle balanced such that the center of gravity was right at the trigger. I use a Caldwell rock junior rest, but without all the balancing bags would provide a more stable platform. The added weight from the lead shot also reduces the recoil-already small for a .22, but every bit helps.

Shooting - Of late I've been working on my breathing and not moving the rifle while squeezing the trigger. I've already adjusted the trigger to its lightest setting but it still seems pretty hard (maybe 3 lbs?). I watched a video of an expert bench rest marksman and got some tips from that. Any other advice?

There is an aftermarket trigger kit now available from a source called Apachee Trigger that is getting pretty good reviews over on rimfire central. It's kinda pricey at about $58, but something to consider. I kept the stock trigger adjusted down to the minimum, and work on my technique. As others have mentioned keeping your trigger-hand thumb on top of the comb instead of wrapped around it seems to help me too. Technique is always something to be working on.

Wind - I've not really focused on this at all, but my understanding is that a .22 projectile is very easily influenced by the wind. The wind at our range is typically pretty light (less than 5 mph) but its direction changes almost every couple of minutes. Any tips on how to judge the wind down range and how to compensate for it?

Wind flags.....I use a piece of surveyor's plastic tape that is very thin and flexible. It is also bright pink so easy to see. Tie it to a piece of thin wire with a hook shape on the end and hang it from the bottom middle of your target or stand. Lots of available web info on gauging wind.

Ammo - This is probably my biggest obstacle since .22lr ammo is so difficult to find. I've managed to accumulate a couple thousand rounds of ammo, problem is it's from a half dozen manufacturers and about a dozen different makes. I was shooting Remmington bulk last week and had the scope sighted in for that ammo. When I ran out of that I switched to Winchester Hyperspeed. It took about a dozen rounds to really sight in the scope and I found that I had to change the scope settings for about an 18" difference in elevation. That big difference surprised me. Considering how hard it is to find .22lr ammo in the first place and besides wasting ammo to sight in the scope each time I go to the range, is there anything else I can do?

[I]For target work, most MK II shooters have found that subsonic ammo works best for precision-especially out beyond 50 yds. High velocity ammo will drop to subsonic speeds somewhere between 60 and 80 yds, and the speed transition produces some buffeting on the back end of the projectile that tends to alter the trajectory. It is hard to find these days, but good quality ammo includes wolf match target, sk standard plus, some of the eley brands, and cci standard velocity. IIRC Killough shooting sports has some of the eley favors in stock now. I have had some excellent results using eley sport, but the wolf and sk seem to be the "go to" food for budget minded target shooters, including me. These are the moderately priced variant that usually run between 10 and 15 cents per round. But bulk ammo and high velocity stuff won't get you where you want to be wrt to precision.

Also to be considered is the round count on your rifle. The MK II takes a while to settle in. I have two, and they didn't settle down until I had approximately 500 rounds through them....[/I]

HTH

[stretch2]

ive seen some shooters who dont wrap their thumb around the pistol grip.

I tried that, but unfortunately the trigger is too heavy to do that without moving the rifle in the process. The technique I'm experimenting with is to keep my thumb on the grip and middle finger on the trigger guard to hold it still while I gently squeeze with my index finger. I really don't like that technique but until I figure out how to lighten the trigger it's the best I've been able to come up with.

I don't mean to sound like I'm bragging, but I can closely duplicate that loose pattern at 100 yds with one of my Ruger 10/22's WITHOUT optics

That's actually good feedback for me. I've not run into too many .22lr shooters at the range (most are .223 or .308). I'm really all brand new to firearms shooting (not counting the few times I shot a 45 and M-16 in the Navy to "qualify") so I'm way behind you in experience.

Savage has always been known to have excellent barrels. Your rifle (a couple of months old?) may need some more "break-in" rounds through the barrel. Also, cleaning is absolutely necessary, and finding out what ammo your rifle likes the best. If I owned a Savage rifle EXACTLY like yours, it might like "Brand A" the best, but yours might not.

I've probably put between 700 and 1000 rounds down the barrel so far. The first few times to the range I cleaned the barrel every couple of dozen rounds. Now I clean it after each visit to the range. I've been told that I can clean "too much" and so only use the brush for one pass each cleaning.

Optics are very often a big problem, and using a variable 'scope usually causes problems with adjusting from the lowest to the highest variable magnifications. If you're going to get a better 'scope, go ahead, then try to find out what magnification point is best. Otherwise, many would suggest that you get a fixed power 'scope....especially if you're going to only shoot at 100 yd targets.

I almost bought a 36x fixed scope that was in my price range (ie. cheap) but the reviews were all over the place (some great, some aweful). The 6-24x I ordered has had consistently good reviews so I'm hoping it will be an improvement.

Wind does affect the flight of the light weight .22 projectile, but so do ground and air temperatures (thermal conditions).

The scope I ordered has a mil dot reticule so I plan on learning how to use it. There's a thermometer at the range. Do you recommend I put little wind telltales near the target to help judge the wind?

I've been an avid shooter for close to 60 years, and the old eyes just aren't what they used to be, but I still use iron sights quite a bit. Try your rifle without optics for a while, just to find out if you can get close to that same pattern.

The "FV" model (heavy barrel) doesn't come with iron sights.

Lastly, and even though I've been a shooter for a long, long time, I often have one of my shooting buddies monitor the way I shoot. You MAY have picked up a bad habit along the way without knowing it, so having a knowledgeable shooter watching how you shoot might benefit you.

Good point. I have no idea what my posture is like while shooting. I'm also still trying to sort out where I should rest my cheek and other things like that.

[stretch2]

@sofbak - I like that Caldwell rest, what do you use for the butt? Also, should I remove the shoulder strap bolt so it rests / moves without interference? Do you happen have a link to the Apachee Trigger?

[sofbak]

@sofbak - I like that Caldwell rest, what do you use for the butt?

My right shoulder.....

Also, should I remove the shoulder strap bolt so it rests / moves without interference?

? I don't understand the question, or "shoulder strap bolt". R u talking about the forward sling swivel stud?

Do you happen have a link to the Apachee Trigger?

[I]This is all I could find. Register at RFC and send him a PM[/I]

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/member.php?u=93517

HTH

[BigFatGuy]

Take an Appleseed class

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[lordres]

From the sounds of it, your biggest problem right now is your ammo. Switching around from standard velocity to hyper velocity, etc.

I've had great results with American Eagle 40 gr at 100 yards.

Winchester M-22, Remington Thunderbolt, and CCI Minimags, not so much...

Shot out of a CZ 452 Ultralux. Nikkon 3x9 P-223

[Izzy43]

Higher powered scope is the right thing to do however the mil-dot reticle is not the best for target shooting. A thin crosshair or thin crosshair with a dot is best. As you have already purchased the scope its a moot point for now but if you ever replace that scope you may want a target reticle. Weaver, Nikon, Mueller and Leupold make those but some are pricey but great quality. No less than 24X for 100yards.

Ammo: Standard Velocity will be the most accurate. CCI SV for the budget minded, better yet Wolf Match Target, SK Std+ or Eley Target will be more accurate. Cost ranges from $3.50 to $7.00/50 for those ammos.

Use a smaller target, preferably a 2" diameter bullseye. I like the shoot-n-c pasties. Easy to see where you are hitting. Aim small, miss small (The Patriot, Mel Gibson)

Trigger: Work with what you have and when you are satisfied with your shooting technique consider a RifleBasix replacement for your Savage.

If you can afford it a Caldwell front rest and a bunny ear bag for the rear.

It can get expensive to purchase even the low end of rests, scope, rifle upgrades and ammo to shoot small groups ( in the 1" @ 100yds variety).

Practice, practice, practice.

[Occams Rasor]

I bought a Ruger Amer. rimfire for shooting at 100yds. Very similar the Savage, some would say the Savage is better.
First at that range you have to shoot subsonic ammo. CCI std vel or subsonic.
Any ammo that leaves the barrel below 1125 fps. There is no 22lr ammo that I know of that will go 100yds supersonic all the way. You have to avoid the transonic shock wave. That will help alot.
Second: wind at that range will have a major effect at 100yds. As example, per shootercalcator.com, 4MPH= 0.7"drift and 4MPH is not much wind. So you need to be aware of the wind if you want to shoot tight groups.
Third: Need to know what the parallax of your scope and if it is adjustable.
I guessing your scope parallax is probably 50yds. No big deal. Just keep your eye in the same position. Don’t lift your head when you bolt the rifle or from shot to shot.
Get a good cheek well and keep the same position so you eye relative the scope is always the same.
Forth: You don’t have to spend big bucks. The setup you have is just fine. The only upgrade I did was to buy a Protek leather rear bag (~$40.00). That seems to help compared to my older bag . After that it is just practice, practice, practice.
Below is a pic at 100yds using CCI std vel ammo. If you throw out the one flyer ( I always have one) it is sub 1MOA. You can do the same with the setup you have.
Best of luck