.22 for defense

[mark]

Well not to double post In a thread but even without a great shot placement a 22 will kill, my uncle was murdered with one 10 years ago. A 22 will end a life the question you should be asking is will a 22 stop a threat long enough for me to get away from the threat. A 22 will take longer to stop a threat then a 44mag either by milliseconds, seconds, or minutes. How long is the fight In your heart to survive against an armed threat and how much are you willing to train. If someone who has a 45 is never willing to train are they still better off then someone with a 22 who practices gun retention, mag changes, rapid action drills , close firing, distance firing. As per personal experience a 22 will drop a man the real question is how much training should You commit to defending my life.

(Not sure but please no sorry for your loss **** happens don't dwell o. You losses but enjoy your gifts)

[iron cannon]

deleted

[mark]

I have so that is one iron cannon.

[iron cannon]

Deleted

[44fred]

Please do tell us your experience about defending yourself with a 22.
I'm not even close to suggesting it can't or doesn't happen, I'm questioning given a choice, weather it's a good idea vs larger calibers.
If you are going to make a choice for a defense caliber, a 22 is a very bad idea in almost every case. The guy who spoke of his wife being perticurally noise and recoil shy, practicing with a 22 will probably de sensitize her. If you have a fear of your weapon or pulling the trigger on a human life, maybe a gun isn't a good idea. Yes people die from 22 gunshots every day, so what, if I have a choice I wouldn't even think of using it.
We all have a right to decide for ourselves. It's a very personal choice, just don't give people the impression 22's are "the right choice".
Another thing I keep seeing is putting X amount of shots into the perps 10 ring (usually more than 10 shots). What makes you think the perp is going to be standing still letting you perform such a task?

[m16]

CENTER OF MASS

You people are high if you seriously think you'll be making accurate "eye socket" shots in a high stress situation.

I keep a 22/45 and a brick of ammo in my BOB for killing small game, in my opinion that is all it's good for.

[iron cannon]

What bothers me about some of these posts is that there is to much "knowledge",not enough real life experience.

[44fred]

Yes, most of us have not been unfortunate enough to have to use a gun in self defense. That's why I keep asking for particulars. PM me if you don't want to post on an open forum. I'll even give you my email address and phone number for communication if you like.
What we are talking about is effectiveness of the 22lr for defense and "choosing" it over other larger calibers.
Poachers use AK47's to kill Elephants all the time in Africa. Does this mean it's promoted as a good idea?

Quick Google search.

Handgun Cartridge Power Chart

By Chuck Hawks


Caliber Load Bullet MV (fps) ME (ft. lbs.) Penetration (10% gel.) AIT (goats at Strasbourg) One Shot Stop % Test Brl.
.22LR CCI, Rem, Win Hi.Vel. 40gr.LRN 955 81 12.8" n/a 21% unk.
.22LR CCI,Rem,Win Hi.Vel. 37grLHP 975 78 10.3" n/a 29% unk.
.22LR Rem. Yellow Jacket 33gr.TCHP 1259 116 n/a n/a 33% 6" Colt
.22LR CCI Stinger 32gr.LHP 1262 113 9.8" n/a 34% 6" Colt
.22WMR CCI +V 30gr.HP 1450 140 9.2" n/a 40% unk.
.22WMR CCI +V 30gr.HP 1300 120 n/a n/a n/a 2" NAA
.22WMR Winchester 40gr.JHP 1400 174 13" n/a 42% 6.5" Ruger
.22WMR Winchester 40gr.JHP 1098 108 n/a n/a n/a 2" NAA
.22WMR Federal 50gr.JHP 817 74 n/a n/a n/a 2" NAA
.25ACP Winchester 45gr.Ex.Pt. 815 66 13.8" n/a 25% 2" test
.25ACP All 50gr.FMJ 760 64 18" n/a 23% unk.
.25ACP MagSafe Defender 22gr.Frag. 1610 n/a 6" n/a 41%est. 2.5" test
.32ACP Winchester 60gr.STHP 970 125 6.5" n/a 63% 3.2" Wthr.
.32ACP Magsafe Defender 50gr.Frag. 1250 191 7.8" n/a 57%est. 3.5" test
.380ACP Federal 90gr.JHP 1005 200 14.4" 11.06 sec. 69% 3.6" SIG
.380ACP Rem. Golden Saber 102gr.JHP 925 194 9.4" n/a 64% 3.6" SIG
.380ACP Remington 88gr.JHP 1000 195 12.8" 13.46 sec. 54% 3.6" SIG
.380ACP Federal Hydra-Shok 90gr.JHP 1007 200 10.5" 10.94 sec. 69% 3.6" SIG
.380ACP Cor-Bon +P 90gr.JHP 1041 217 9" 11.12 sec. 70% 3.6" SIG
.380ACP Fed, Rem, Win. 95gr.FMJ 955 190 17" 22.8 sec. 51% 3.6" SIG
.380ACP CCI Gold Dot 90gr.JHP 1030 212 8" n/a 67% 3.6" SIG
.380ACP Glaser Blue 70gr.Frag. 1313 268 5" 7.94 sec. 75% 3.6" SIG
.38Spec. Winchester +P 158gr.LHP 790 280 15.2" n/a 67% 2" S&W
.38Spec. Federal, Rem, Win. 158gr.RNL 587 200 n/a 46.58 sec. 49% 2" S&W
.38Spec. Remington +P 158gr.LHP 776 211 n/a 15.52 sec. 65% 2" S&W
.38Spec. Glaser Blue 80gr.Frag. 1350 400 6" n/a 77%est. 2" S&W
.38Spec. Cor-Bon +P 115gr.JHP 1243 395 14.2" 8.98 sec. 83% 4" S&W
.38Spec. Glaser Blue +P 80gr.Frag. 1667 494 7" 4.72 sec. 84%est. 4" S&W
.38Spec Winchester +P 158gr.LHP 996 342 15.2" 10.76 sec. 78% 4" S&W
.38Spec. Federal +P 125gr.JHP 945 248 12.2" n/a 73% 4" S&W
.38Spec. Federal, Rem, Win. 158gr.RNL 708 176 28.5" 33.68 sec. 52% 4" S&W
.38Spec. Remington +P 125gr.SJHP 1008 280 11.1" 11.74 sec. 69% 4" Colt
9x19 Glaser Blue 80gr.Frag. 1555 430 6" 7.42 sec. 94%est. 4" S&W
9x19 Cor-Bon +P 115gr.JHP 1321 454 14.2" 8.92 sec. 91% 4" Glock
9x19 MagSafe Stealth +P 64gr.Frag. 1950 461 10" 4.74 sec. 90%est. 4.25" SIG
9x19 Winchester 115gr.STHP 1225 383 8" n/a 83% unk.
9x19 Rem.Golden Saber+P 124gr.JHP 1180 384 12" n/a 83% unk.
9x19 Remington +P 115gr.JHP 1288 399 12.7" 8.98 sec. 89% 4" S&W
9x19 Federal 115gr.JHP 1175 341 14.5" 9.36 sec. 81% 4" S&W
.38Super Remington +P 115gr.JHP 1300 431 n/a n/a 88% 5" test
.357Mag. Glaser Blue 80gr.Frag. 1687 505 6" 4.82 sec. 89%est. 4" S&W
.357Mag. Federal 110gr.JHP 1295 410 10" n/a 90% 4" S&W
.357Mag. Federal 125gr.JHP 1442 580 13.3" 7.44 sec. 96% 4" S&W
.357Mag. Remington 125gr.SJHP 1468 583 13" 7.34 sec. 96% 4" Colt
.357Mag. Rem.Golden Saber MV 125gr.JHP 1220 413 13" n/a 84% 4" S&W
.357Mag. Remington Med.Vel. 125gr.SJHP 1205 413 15.5" 7.94 sec. 83% 4" Colt
.40S&W Glaser Blue 105gr.Frag 1449 490 6" 5.34 sec. 91%est. 4" S&W
.40S&W Cor-Bon 135gr.JHP 1300 507 9.8" n/a 96% 4" S&W
.40S&W MagSafe Defender +P 84gr.Frag> 1800 n/a 13" n/a 91% 4" S&W
.40S&W Federal Hydra-Shok 180gr.JHP 950 361 15" 8.32 sec. 89% 4" S&W
.40S&W Federal Hydra-Shok 155gr.JHP 1140 448 13.3" n/a 94% 4" S&W
.40S&W Rem.Golden Saber 165gr.JHP 1150 485 12" n/a 94% 4" S&W
.40S&W Remington 155gr.JHP 1140 447 n/a 8.40 sec. 86%est. 4" S&W
10mm Winchester 175gr.STHP 1250 607 12.8" n/a 92% 4.25" S&W
10mm Glaser Blue 105gr.Frag. 1624 615 n/a 7.60 sec. n/a 4.25" S&W
10mm Winchester 180gr.JHP 1055 445 15.5" n/a 82% 4.25" S&W
10mm Federal Hydra-Shok 180gr.JHP 980 383 15" n/a 87% 4.25" S&W
.41Mag. Winchester 210gr.JHP 1300 789 17.5" n/a 82% 4" S&W
.41Mag. Winchester 175gr.STHP 1250 608 14" n/a 89% 4" S&W
.44Spec. Remington 240gr.LSWC 851 384 n/a n/a 64% 4" S&W
.44Spec. Cor-Bon +P 180gr.JHP 1000 400 14.2" n/a 86% 4" S&W
.44Spec. MagSafe Defender 92gr.Frag. 1620 n/a 9.5" n/a 92%est. 4" S&W
.44Spec. Winchester 200gr.STHP 819 298 10.4" n/a 75% 4" S&W
.44Mag. MagSafe Urban 115gr.Frag. 1620 n/a 11" n/a 93%est. 4" S&W
.44Mag. Cor-Bon 180gr. Urban 1200 576 15.3" n/a 90% 4" S&W
.44Mag. Eldorado Starfire 240gr.JHP 1180 743 14.8" n/a 91% 4" S&W
.44Mag. Winchester 210gr.STHP 1301 788 15.1" n/a 90% 4" S&W
.45ACP Glaser Blue 140gr.Frag. 1355 571 n/a 4.72 sec. n/a 5" Colt
.45ACP Federal Hydra-Shok 230gr.JHP 819 366 13.3" 8.40 sec. 94% 5" Colt
.45ACP MagSafe Defender 96gr.Frag. 1660 n/a 10" n/a 93%est. 5" Colt
.45ACP Federal 185gr.JHP 1001 411 13.6" 9.24 sec. 87% 5" Colt
.45ACP Cor-bon +P 185gr.JHP 1150 544 11.3" n/a 92% 5" Colt
.45ACP Fed, Rem, Win. 230 FMJ 839 360 27" 13.84 sec. 63% 5" Colt
.45ACP CCI-Speer 200gr.JHP 975 422 9.4" n/a 88% 5" Colt
.45ACP Remington +P 185gr.JHP 1129 519 17.1" 7.98 sec. 86% 5" Colt
.45Colt Winchester 225gr.STHP 920 423 13.5" n/a 74% 4" S&W
.45Colt Federal 225LHP 900 405 19.5" n/a 78% 4" S&W
.45Colt Cor-Bon +P 200gr.JHP 1100 537 9" n/a 92% 4" S&W

Please Note: The above data is drawn from various sources including the book Handgun Stopping Power by Marshall and Sanow, and various articles in magazines such as Handguns. To order the latest books by Marshall and Sanow, follow my link to Evan Marshal's Stopping Power web page.

For experienced shooters the headings of most of the columns above are self-explanatory. For everyone else: "Caliber" is the common name of the cartridge tested; "Load" is the brand of ammunition tested; "Bullet" is the weight (in grains) and configuration (JHP, for instance, means jacketed hollow point) of the bullet; "MV" is the standard abbreviation for muzzle velocity; "ME" is the abbreviation for muzzle energy; "Penetration (10% gel)" is the measured penetration of the bullet when fired into a block of standard ordinance gelatin, which is used to simulate soft tissue; "AIT (goats at Strasbourg)" refers to a famous European experiment where a great many goats of the approximate size and cardio-vascular capacity of a human being were shot broadside through the lungs with a variety of handgun loads and the 'Average Incapacitation Time' (in seconds) from the shot until the animal's collapse was recorded; "One shot stop %" is the percentage of one shot stops in actual street shootings as culled from police records by Marshall and Sanow; "Test brl." means the length of the test pistol's barrel.

For an expanded version of this chart with more entries, see the "Expanded Handgun Power Chart" on the Tables, Charts and Lists Page.

[44fred]

CENTER OF MASS

You people are high if you seriously think you'll be making accurate "eye socket" shots in a high stress situation.

I keep a 22/45 and a brick of ammo in my BOB for killing small game, in my opinion that is all it's good for.

+1 Couldn't have said it any better!

[desertexplore]

Every time I see this conversation, I think of the time I was on-duty and did CPR on a young boy who got shot in the chest by a .22 and died.

Consider a storm of .22 coming down on you, not good. Not the best SD round, but just might do the trick.

[fourXfour]

Lately I've been recommending .22's to new shooters. Mostly M&P 15-22's, lcr's, sr22's and 10/22's for the following reasons.

1. Better than nothing

2. Low felt recoil especially for those with disabilities.

3. Ammo is cheap (or it was). Practice is important. New shooters need to shoot!! If they stick with it, they can always upgrade later.

4. Stingers and other high velocity ammo is available for defense if they really want. The Ruger LCR, 10/22, & SR22 seem reliable enough. The LCR has the edge for ease of cleaning and ability to quickly get past a dud round.

I don't think I've ever assisted in a shooting investigation with a .22. I can't add too much real world experience.

[44fred]

Every time I see this conversation, I think of the time I was on-duty and did CPR on a young boy who got shot in the chest by a .22 and died.

Consider a storm of .22 coming down on you, not good. Not the best SD round, but just might do the trick.

I don't think anybody is arguing the fact that 22's can kill.
When it comes to a "defensive" round you want to end the threat NOW, not on the 25th shot, but the first.
We are talking about using a 22 as a defense round, not trying to ask if it can kill. If you are defending using a 22lr for defense over larger calibers, I guess we just cant get through to you. Go ahead and use it. Just be sure and tell that bad guy who is trying to kill you with his 45ACP to stand still so you can pump several rounds into him and wait for the results.
I'm done.

[ElDub1950]

I don't think anybody is arguing the fact that 22's can kill.
When it comes to a "defensive" round you want to end the threat NOW, not on the 25th shot, but the first.
We are talking about using a 22 as a defense round, not trying to ask if it can kill. If you are defending using a 22lr for defense over larger calibers, I guess we just cant get through to you. Go ahead and use it. Just be sure and tell that bad guy who is trying to kill you with his 45ACP to stand still so you can pump several rounds into him and wait for the results.
I'm done.

Agreed. This whole thread has become absurd. When you or your loved ones are in a life threatening situation your goal is not to eventually kill the bad guy. You goal is to immediately stop the bad guy from attacking.

The odds of stopping a bad guy with a .22 BEFORE he can start returning fire and essentially zero. I don't care how many little squirrel targets you can hit at 50 yards. You're not going to make a single shot kill in an SD/HD situation.

[Izzy43]

Agreed. This whole thread has become absurd.

These .22lr defense threads nearly always do. Better than using bad language on a bad buy but not quite as good as a 12 gauge shotgun if your intention is to stop the threat. If one is serious about self defense, one should acquire the appropriate firearm. After all its one's life that is at risk so how much should one spend for self defense/home defense???

[ar15robert]

I get a laugh when they say a .22 aint enough.How bout they stand in front of it and see how many rounds they can take.
Bet there would be no takers!

All about shot placement.