Are RDS really practical on a carry gun?

[neomedic]

I want to believe some of the hesitation from some are due to stories of cheap red dots giving end user issues. This really is...you get what you pay for.
Stick with aimpoint, trijicon, holosun and it will likely be issue free. As with all things, check your equipment and good companies will warranty their product.

Iron sights can fall off as well. My trijicon tritium vials fell out during a range session. Have friends where their glock front sight completely gone during a shooting session.

[static2126]

I want to believe some of the hesitation from some are due to stories of cheap red dots giving end user issues. This really is...you get what you pay for.
Stick with aimpoint, trijicon, holosun and it will likely be issue free. As with all things, check your equipment and good companies will warranty their product.

Iron sights can fall off as well. My trijicon tritium vials fell out during a range session. Have friends where their glock front sight completely gone during a shooting session.

Same. Have had a few glock front sights fall off

[stormvet]

You know it’s funny in my decades of shooting I have never had a sight fall off and I shoot a lot. Worse thing that happened to me regarding sights it a fiber optic tube working loose, a lighter and a couple seconds later good to go.

But I have a friend that for whatever reason can’t seem to keep his sights on his guns. I remember just plinking with him once years ago in a square indoor range, he broke the front sight on a Remington 1911 and had the rear sight come loose and fall off an Sig Scorpion 1911. What the hell…

I think all the angst and worry about Red Dots not working when you need it is ridiculous. All it takes is a minute of preventative maintenance and care and it will never be an issue.

[static2126]

You know it?s funny in my decades of shooting I have never had a sight fall off and I shoot a lot. Worse thing that happened to me regarding sights it a fiber optic tube working loose, a lighter and a couple seconds later good to go.

But I have a friend that for whatever reason can?t seem to keep his sights on his guns. I remember just plinking with him once years ago in a square indoor range, he broke the front sight on a Remington 1911 and had the rear sight come loose and fall off an Sig Scorpion 1911. What the hell?

I think all the angst and worry about Red Dots not working when you need it is ridiculous. All it takes is a minute of preventative maintenance and care and it will never be an issue.

I had a glock rear sight fall off once haha

Agreed on optics. For holosun (which is what I primarily run) crib death can be high. But any of my holosun optics thst make is ove 500 have made it past 10k easily.

I am trying to.hopefully wear out an eps carry in a few years (say 12 to 15k a year x 4 ot 5 years?)

Have a 509T on 30k something (prob 35k) that I will frame if it ever dies.

I do change battery in my edc eps carry every 6 months. Because I carry circle 1 down from highest.

[stormvet]

When it comes to Glocks I do two things to a new one immediately after I get them home. Clean the factory copper lube off of them and replace the OEM plastic sights with new steel ones. My Gen 5 19 came new with the Ameriglo Pro sights(think they are called trooper sights now), great irons. I’d gladly pay more for Glocks if they’d all just come with good steel sights.

[static2126]

When it comes to Glocks I do two things to a new one immediately after I get them home. Clean the factory copper lube off of them and replace the OEM plastic sights with new steel ones. My Gen 5 19 came new with the Ameriglo Pro sights(think they are called trooper sights now), great irons. I?d gladly pay more for Glocks if they?d all just come with good steel sights.

Agreed 100%. The ameriglo pros are awesome

[static2126]

When it comes to Glocks I do two things to a new one immediately after I get them home. Clean the factory copper lube off of them and replace the OEM plastic sights with new steel ones. My Gen 5 19 came new with the Ameriglo Pro sights(think they are called trooper sights now), great irons. I?d gladly pay more for Glocks if they?d all just come with good steel sights.

If you are roster exempt the new springfield is brilliant for optic mounting.

Time will tell on that guns reliability and staying power

[Old Marine]

100% makes sense.

May I ask why you don't trust a red dot on a carry pistol? Just curious as many of us edc a dot daily and plenty of Leo's now use dot.

If dot fails use window as a giant ghost ring or use backup irons. Don't lose anything at all

Did everyone with a RDS remove their irons sights?
I have a G19 with Trujicon RDS and supressor height irons sights, co-witnessed. If the RDS suddenly falls apart, the battery I replace every year suddenly fails or a bolt of lightning melts the Trijicon, my iron sights still work. Same srt up.with a Romeo on my 365.
RDS is simply another tool to help you use your weapon more effectively. But without practice, neither will help you when the defication strikes the rotating oscillator.

[Vinnie Boombatz]

Did everyone with a RDS remove their irons sights?
I have a G19 with Trujicon RDS and supressor height irons sights, co-witnessed. If the RDS suddenly falls apart, the battery I replace every year suddenly fails or a bolt of lightning melts the Trijicon, my iron sights still work. Same srt up.with a Romeo on my 365.
RDS is simply another tool to help you use your weapon more effectively. But without practice, neither will help you when the defication strikes the rotating oscillator.

Why would someone remove your iron sights with an RDS, especially if it's on a self-defense firearm? Also, if you end up having to shoot from some really weird position and/or can't find your dot right away you'd go straight for your irons.

[Atomic Donut]

If you go through the proper training, you’ll learn that the frame of pistol red dots can be used as an aiming device to accurately hit torso sized targets out to 15 yards without the red dot even on. It’s been said a million times but the truth is the pistol red dot is the way of the future. The same mindset of people who don’t want to “Trust” the red dot on a carry pistol are the same type who didn’t want to put one on a rifle 20 years ago. Technology is at a point now where pistol red dots such as Holosun and Aimpoints are not only closed emitters but also have external battery changing so their is no excuse to no change batteries like you would on a rifle. The technology itself has proven itself to be reliable.

With that said, you do need to train with a pistol red dot since there is no buttstock to reference your cheek/eyes like there is with a rifle. I would highly recommend taking a class or practicing with a minimal of 1000 rounds working primarily on capturing the dot after drawing and reloading under stress.

[k1dude]

My carry pistols only have iron sights. My competition pistols have red dots.

I'm an old dude, so I'm much faster with iron sights than I am with red dots. But that's simply because I have almost 60 years of experience shooting pistol irons vs only a couple years of shooting pistol red dots. But I also recognize that red dots on pistols are the future.

To shoot a pistol red dot, you have to have a perfect presentation or you can lose your dot on the draw. You can also lose your dot in a string of fire and transitions. It's very easy to lose your dot when shooting from unusual or awkward positions. That's why I like the Holosun with the ACSS chevron with the giant 250 MOA ring. It makes it easy and quick to figure out where your lost chevron went. But sometimes you see a distracting curtain of red on recoil from that 250 MOA ring.

I find that a red dot will teach you a more perfect presentation than irons, where you can get away with more slop. A dot is better for locking in your muscle memory. The red dot also allows for more of a target focus, which is an improvement over irons. But I still lose the dot when shooting in unconventional positions without that big 250 MOA ring.

The first problem I have with red dots on carry pistols is the battery. On a carry gun you absolutely have to have back up iron sights in case your battery dies or the optic craps out. I have one gun with a dot that I might consider carrying in the future if I get better with optics. It has yellow rear tritiums and a front green tritium. The dot is red. It's easy to aim with either the irons or the dot on that gun. If I had a green front tritium with a green dot optic, the flash sight picture would get mighty confusing when the shooting gets hot and heavy.

The second and third problems I have with red dots on carry pistols is the glass and lack of a quick release. Once during a competition, my glass shattered and I couldn't see my iron sights through the fractures to finish the stage. So I wound up with a big DNF for the stage and the match. If I had a QR on the optic, I could have quickly dumped the optic and continued with irons. But no one has a QR for pistol red dots that I'm aware of. Yet all of my rifle red dots come with QR mounts for that exact reason. Why don't they do the same for pistols?

[static2126]

If you go through the proper training, you?ll learn that the frame of pistol red dots can be used as an aiming device to accurately hit torso sized targets out to 15 yards without the red dot even on. It?s been said a million times but the truth is the pistol red dot is the way of the future. The same mindset of people who don?t want to ?Trust? the red dot on a carry pistol are the same type who didn?t want to put one on a rifle 20 years ago. Technology is at a point now where pistol red dots such as Holosun and Aimpoints are not only closed emitters but also have external battery changing so their is no excuse to no change batteries like you would on a rifle. The technology itself has proven itself to be reliable.

With that said, you do need to train with a pistol red dot since there is no buttstock to reference your cheek/eyes like there is with a rifle. I would highly recommend taking a class or practicing with a minimal of 1000 rounds working primarily on capturing the dot after drawing and reloading under stress.

Agreed 100% except one legacy sentimental pistol all guns get optic cuts and dots. Personally not very interested in a non red dot gun

[static2126]

My carry pistols only have iron sights. My competition pistols have red dots.

I'm an old dude, so I'm much faster with iron sights than I am with red dots. But that's simply because I have almost 60 years of experience shooting pistol irons vs only a couple years of shooting pistol red dots. But I also recognize that red dots on pistols are the future.

To shoot a pistol red dot, you have to have a perfect presentation or you can lose your dot on the draw. You can also lose your dot in a string of fire and transitions. It's very easy to lose your dot when shooting from unusual or awkward positions. That's why I like the Holosun with the ACSS chevron with the giant 250 MOA ring. It makes it easy and quick to figure out where your lost chevron went. But sometimes you see a distracting curtain of red on recoil from that 250 MOA ring.

I find that a red dot will teach you a more perfect presentation than irons, where you can get away with more slop. A dot is better for locking in your muscle memory. The red dot also allows for more of a target focus, which is an improvement over irons. But I still lose the dot when shooting in unconventional positions without that big 250 MOA ring.

The first problem I have with red dots on carry pistols is the battery. On a carry gun you absolutely have to have back up iron sights in case your battery dies or the optic craps out. I have one gun with a dot that I might consider carrying in the future if I get better with optics. It has yellow rear tritiums and a front green tritium. The dot is red. It's easy to aim with either the irons or the dot on that gun. If I had a green front tritium with a green dot optic, the flash sight picture would get mighty confusing when the shooting gets hot and heavy.

The second and third problems I have with red dots on carry pistols is the glass and lack of a quick release. Once during a competition, my glass shattered and I couldn't see my iron sights through the fractures to finish the stage. So I wound up with a big DNF for the stage and the match. If I had a QR on the optic, I could have quickly dumped the optic and continued with irons. But no one has a QR for pistol red dots that I'm aware of. Yet all of my rifle red dots come with QR mounts for that exact reason. Why don't they do the same for pistols?

My thoughts on quick release.

Generally rifles are 25 yard plus weapons. Pistols generally 3 to 25 yard weapons in real life.

There would be no time for the quick release in most defensive scenarios. Close range my dot is down I am just shooting index if I can't use the sights (say out to 7)

[static2126]

My carry pistols only have iron sights. My competition pistols have red dots.

I'm an old dude, so I'm much faster with iron sights than I am with red dots. But that's simply because I have almost 60 years of experience shooting pistol irons vs only a couple years of shooting pistol red dots. But I also recognize that red dots on pistols are the future.

To shoot a pistol red dot, you have to have a perfect presentation or you can lose your dot on the draw. You can also lose your dot in a string of fire and transitions. It's very easy to lose your dot when shooting from unusual or awkward positions. That's why I like the Holosun with the ACSS chevron with the giant 250 MOA ring. It makes it easy and quick to figure out where your lost chevron went. But sometimes you see a distracting curtain of red on recoil from that 250 MOA ring.

I find that a red dot will teach you a more perfect presentation than irons, where you can get away with more slop. A dot is better for locking in your muscle memory. The red dot also allows for more of a target focus, which is an improvement over irons. But I still lose the dot when shooting in unconventional positions without that big 250 MOA ring.

The first problem I have with red dots on carry pistols is the battery. On a carry gun you absolutely have to have back up iron sights in case your battery dies or the optic craps out. I have one gun with a dot that I might consider carrying in the future if I get better with optics. It has yellow rear tritiums and a front green tritium. The dot is red. It's easy to aim with either the irons or the dot on that gun. If I had a green front tritium with a green dot optic, the flash sight picture would get mighty confusing when the shooting gets hot and heavy.

The second and third problems I have with red dots on carry pistols is the glass and lack of a quick release. Once during a competition, my glass shattered and I couldn't see my iron sights through the fractures to finish the stage. So I wound up with a big DNF for the stage and the match. If I had a QR on the optic, I could have quickly dumped the optic and continued with irons. But no one has a QR for pistol red dots that I'm aware of. Yet all of my rifle red dots come with QR mounts for that exact reason. Why don't they do the same for pistols?

May I ask which dot broke and how many rounds roughly?

[Zenderfall]

Why would someone remove your iron sights with an RDS, especially if it's on a self-defense firearm? Also, if you end up having to shoot from some really weird position and/or can't find your dot right away you'd go straight for your irons.

That’s what most people think, but not what I’ve seen, happens. When a dot dies (for whatever god-knows-why reason, usually battery, or shock death) people take their time and hunt for their dot. They twirl the gun a bit, pit it up close to their face, slap the dot, etc. i’ve never seen anyone go straight to the irons, which is why they’re there.

In short, just about everyone who shoots with dots are so accustomed to it, that they will push the limit of trying to find it rather than give up and use the irons.

Granted, most decent name brand dot makers are very good about making stuff that works, but occasionally (not often) there will be one or two that die right on the field during use.

I actually think that if a dotmaker makes a “training mode” where it randomly dies in a slide shock, that it would intentionally turn itself off and train the operator to go straight for the irons, as people should be doing. Training that into routine would be a very good thing.