Are RDS really practical on a carry gun?

[PogoJack]

Friend at Sig got me a deal on a Romeo Zero Elite for my P365 XL. I heard these particular RDS are trash but I want to dip my toes in the water off RDS before I get a good one.

Seems like the battery dying at an important time and the need to train to draw extensively in order to have the dot in your view are two serious cons.

What is the upside, better accuracy and faster faster target acquisition?

I recently read Toni McBride, an LAPD officer who was involved in a gnarly OIS a couple of years back, stated she would be carrying irons and not an RDS because the irons saved her life.

Your thoughts on this? I hope this isn?t a Glock vs, 1911 topic, I?m just trying to figure out if I should cut my losses and put that plate back on the gun.

[neomedic]

I think the same can be said of rifles. Do you use a red dot? Or sticking with irons?

As long as you train and maintain your equipment (battery changes yearly), I wouldn't worry.

[Mute]

Plenty of people have been using RDS on their carry guns for some time now, cops and non-LEO. The reliability now is at a level where it's really a non-issue, though the caveat is to stick with those that have solid track records (e.g. Trijicon, Holosun, Leupold...etc.). The Romeo Zero Elite mount pattern would allow you to use a Holosun with the K footprint. I suggest starting there.

[sbo80]

the need to train to draw extensively in order to have the dot in your view are two serious cons.

Didn't you have to do the same thing with irons? The fact that you personally may have already done that, isn't really relevant to whether RDS are good or not. If you want to be proficient with a piece of equipment, you have to practice.

[PogoJack]

Didn't you have to do the same thing with irons? The fact that you personally may have already done that, isn't really relevant to whether RDS are good or not. If you want to be proficient with a piece of equipment, you have to practice.

You do have a very valid point. I trust my aimpoint to be on when I need it. The thing with pistols is that its usefulness will be within 10 yards and so I am nto sure what sort of extra precise shot I could make with an RDS that I couldn't do with the regular sights. I guess if there were multiple bogeys, RDS would make more sense to me.

[Vinnie Boombatz]

They’re a huge advantage. I should faster, tighter and more consistent groups with an RDS, and I have messed up eyes.

As far as the battery goes, every this has it’s pros and cons, and if you spend enough time thinking about it you can come up with myriad of “what-if’s”. Change the battery out every year on your birthday or on New Years Day each year and your battery won’t go dead.

Also keep in mind, simply adding an RDS isn’t going to make you a better shooter. Just like with irons, you need to practice, otherwise you’re fooling yourself. And if you have aging eyes a RDS is so much easier to use than irons, IMO.

I’ve also since put an RDS on my shotgun and AR and taken a few multi-day classes with those RDS-equipped firearms and haven’t looked back since. My S&W Shield that is my carry gun wears an RDS as do the two G17’s I have that I use for classes.

[gunsnrovers]

If it's a carry/primary and you leave it on, just change the batteries every 2 weeks. Not even $40 a year for a full supply of 2032's. The practice part should be self evident.

[stormvet]

It’s all about training with them exclusively, switching back and forth from irons to RD is counterproductive.

I am no faster or more accurate with a RD precisely for that reason. I fully understand that if I would stop shooting my irons, I’d be much better with a RD on a handgun. But I am pretty darn fast and accurate with my irons as it is, so I don’t see it as a problem and I still enjoy shooting them.

To me it’s more like shooting a 40 compared to a 9, you will be maybe a few tenths faster with the 9. But even with the 40 you are still pretty darn fast compared to most.

[FNGGlock]

Unfortunately in CA we are still stuck behind the times with very limited optics mounts for pistols, which limits things. For a defensive weapon BUIS is a must with a RDS IMO.

I like the ACSS system that Primary Arms has, as it helps to quickly acquire the RDS on a pistol. Don't just trust presentation practice as you my end up having to present the pistol at odd angles due to the situation.

[P5Ret]

The biggest advantages of an RDS for me are it's faster, and I can shoot it with my glasses on. I have issues with front site focus with my bifocals on. With the RDS or in my case GDS it's target focus and the dot is there.

Once you get passed the "chasing the dot" phase it gets a lot easier. Like others have said practice.

[Mute]

You do have a very valid point. I trust my aimpoint to be on when I need it. The thing with pistols is that its usefulness will be within 10 yards and so I am nto sure what sort of extra precise shot I could make with an RDS that I couldn't do with the regular sights. I guess if there were multiple bogeys, RDS would make more sense to me.

If you can see your iron sights just fine, RDS isn't a must. It does help in bad lighting conditions where seeing irons sights could pose a problem. As for drawing and aiming. Just like with iron sights, you need to practice and get a consistent draw and aim. Once you have some experience with an RDS, you'll get a feel for it and understand that it's not that different from using irons. I think some people have trouble with them because they're trying to learn it on their own without the assistance of those whom may have experience already.

[Vinnie Boombatz]

RDS can really make a difference for those with aging eyes. Sadly, that same population (older folks) are usually the most resistant to change or trying something new. Can't tell them how to do anything or recommend a new way.

[ARFrog]

Full disclosure - I am not allowed to have a RDS by my local Sheriff.

Having said that, I too have older eyes and prefer using a RDS such that I don't have to wear range glasses with dipoter magnifiers to see my front sight clearly. So after practicing red dot acquisition, I am more faster with the RDS than the iron sight as actually demonstrated with action steel times. I am also more accurate as demonstrated by my range targets.

Even though I prefer RDS, I still have been practicing with both RDS and iron sights on the same firearm with two different slides. I do this because use of a RDS or irons is a semi perishable skill that continually needs updating.

[static2126]

Friend at Sig got me a deal on a Romeo Zero Elite for my P365 XL. I heard these particular RDS are trash but I want to dip my toes in the water off RDS before I get a good one.

Seems like the battery dying at an important time and the need to train to draw extensively in order to have the dot in your view are two serious cons.

What is the upside, better accuracy and faster faster target acquisition?

I recently read Toni McBride, an LAPD officer who was involved in a gnarly OIS a couple of years back, stated she would be carrying irons and not an RDS because the irons saved her life.

Your thoughts on this? I hope this isn?t a Glock vs, 1911 topic, I?m just trying to figure out if I should cut my losses and put that plate back on the gun.

If you are willing to train 100% red dot on a carry gun will make you faster and more accurate

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=27999214#post27999214

Also looking at the target is hugely helpful for dynamic situations.

Get a good dot and make sure your holster draw is clean that is key

[static2126]

Friend at Sig got me a deal on a Romeo Zero Elite for my P365 XL. I heard these particular RDS are trash but I want to dip my toes in the water off RDS before I get a good one.

Seems like the battery dying at an important time and the need to train to draw extensively in order to have the dot in your view are two serious cons.

What is the upside, better accuracy and faster faster target acquisition?

I recently read Toni McBride, an LAPD officer who was involved in a gnarly OIS a couple of years back, stated she would be carrying irons and not an RDS because the irons saved her life.

Your thoughts on this? I hope this isn?t a Glock vs, 1911 topic, I?m just trying to figure out if I should cut my losses and put that plate back on the gun.

Also op if deciding zero (personally I zero freestyle standing as bench zero for pistol has led to distant being wonky for me).



Where you zero depends on your distance shooting capability

Ideal zeros (I shoot them standing freestyle)

10 yards - 1 inch (so 5 rounds touching, rounds need to touch or your variance at distance after 15 yards is crazy)

15 yards - 1.5 inch (5 rounds hitting x on a b8), same thing about why so tight a group

25.yards - all in black of a b8

Any of the above will all be in black of a b8 at 25 yards if shooter does his/per part.

Any of the about will let you hit b/c sized steel out to 150 standing offhand if you know holdover and have good trigger control. Maybe even 200 if shooter is capable

Holdover closer (say 5 to 7 yards) will be approx 0.5 to 1 inch poa vs poi. Thus is due to optic height over bore.

For most people red dot index from.holster takes about 1000 or so clean reps (irons allow a lot more slop). Being good out of holster with a red dot (consistent index) will impact your iron shooting positively. But iron doesn't translate to dot (because irons allow so much draw slop)

Initially you will be slower up close with dot. But once you clean up your draw and index it so much faster and fantastic for dynamic shooting (force on force, everyone moving and shooting, target focus). Generally you should be more accurate with dot at all distances and in all dynamic situations once you index properly.

For things 7 yards and closer depending on your skills you should shoot irons target focus too. Further flash sight picture