Night Force Scope

[iFixit]

Agree to disagree.

BTW no one is paying MSRP on Vortex. Can get the Vortex 4.5-27x for something like $2250.

Sig's new optics look nice, heard the poached some Leupold engineers? IMO Sig hasn't been proven yet so I'm not going to place a bet with my hard earned money on unproven optics, you can though.

Yeah and Holosun poached Primary Arms engineers. Gonna see some good stuff from them in a few months as well.

Forgot a video.

you can get the same quality in Athlon 4.5-27x for $1000.

enjoy.

[HK Dave]

I dont have illumination on mine, I agree the mark up for that is ridiculous. Had a scope before that was illuminated and never used that feature so I'm indifferent. Would be nice though.

The mk8 is wayyyyyyy too much money, not even sure how great it is, I've heard it's really nice though.

I once had an opportunity to pick up a mk8 for something like $2400... I am still uncertain why I didn't do it. Killswitch was impressed by the tracking if I recall correctly, and everyone that gets behind one is astounded by it optically. Kick myself on the butt.

[HK Dave]

Yeah and Holosun poached Primary Arms engineers. Gonna see some good stuff from them in a few months as well.

Forgot a video.

you can get the same quality in Athlon 4.5-27x for $1000.

enjoy.

What is the cheapest you've seen a Cronus BTR go for? Might be curious enough to pick one up and compare it side by side with my razor if the price is right.

[waveslayer]

Awesome scope, what model ate you looking at, and no guys I didn't read all your posts

My wife thinks I only have 3 guns

[iFixit]

What is the cheapest you've seen a Cronus BTR go for? Might be curious enough to pick one up and compare it side by side with my razor if the price is right.

see if Athlon will kick you a deal one for testing. if you are serious and non-bias, they might do a special deal. they are definitely not shy about their focus of competing with Vortex head to head for market share.

they are not joking around, once people get wind of this like I did, either Vortex prices are going to crash or Athlon prices are going up.

I can thank the guys at my local gun store for telling me to go research them.

[KillZone45]

see if Athlon will kick you a deal one for testing. if you are serious and non-bias, they might do a special deal. they are definitely not shy about their focus of competing with Vortex head to head for market share.

they are not joking around, once people get wind of this like I did, either Vortex prices are going to crash or Athlon prices are going up.

I can thank the guys at my local gun store for telling me to go research them.

I bet Athlon are nice optics, no reason to doubt that. But people will not be all of a sudden jumping ship to a new, untested brand from a well known brand. People have loyalty and aren't that stupid. That being said competition is great for the market place and I welcome it.

[longrange1]

i shot night force scopes for 7yrs...their scopes can take some abuse and the glass is fantastic.

i switched to the vortex gen11 razor and have been shooting it for 14mos...love the scope,glass and the reticle...HATE the color.

i also have two argos BTRs on 22s and these scopes are AWESOME...the glass is extremely clear up to about 22x before it gets a little fuzzy around the edges...love the reticle even at high-er powers it dont block out smaller targets.

i like the argos enough that i had a SWFA SS 3-15x42 on one of my 22s and traded it for an argos.

all that said i am switching over to mils with my razor and went with another GEN11. i would have went with a cronus but i dont like the reticle and really wish Athlon would have put their BTR reticle in the new cronus instead of a copy of the MOAR.

if you dont mind the reticle go with the cronus...and KillZone45 theres a lotta ppl jumping on the athlon train...their glass and warranty are on par with the big names and their prices(for now)are what sets them apart.

[iFixit]

I bet Athlon are nice optics, no reason to doubt that. But people will not be all of a sudden jumping ship to a new, untested brand from a well known brand. People have loyalty and aren't that stupid. That being said competition is great for the market place and I welcome it.

I agree, no one is going to give up their vortex, but prices are going to equalize soon. either Athlon is going up or vortex is coming down, and we are not talking about a small amount either. Its hundreds of dollars difference.

[Andy9161]

I agree, no one is going to give up their vortex, but prices are going to equalize soon. either Athlon is going up or vortex is coming down, and we are not talking about a small amount either. Its hundreds of dollars difference.

I personally doubt Vortex is going anywhere.

Check this out, they are popular among PRS shooters - http://precisionrifleblog.com/2017/0...opes-pros-use/

[penguin0123]

I'm going to go with NightForce and Vortex both have better glass than US Optics. I could be wrong but I doubt it.

Who cares about lower end chi-Com glass, are you buying that cheap junk? I know I'm not, I'm buying the premier line when I decide to plop down my hard earned cash.

NF > USO for sure. And top of the line Vortex as well. I was never blown away by USO. I think they never got out of the garage mode like NF did.

Ray is an interesting guy. He is very into patents and bringing out the next thing. Once you're willing to pay a certain price, you'll get the optics you want (and you really can't get it at a cheaper price b/c of mfg costs). What sets a mfg apart is the user interface (reticle, turrets, etc) and durability.

Then we are in agreement. If I am going to plop down $1600 or more on glass, I am not buying Vortex or Athlon either. I would go with Leupold on the low end and Night Force on the high end.

Leupold has good glass (dare I say better than NF for my eyes). However, their mechanics in the MK4 line sucked. No zero stop (or ghetto shims), soft turrets, "fast focus" that just ends up shifting under use. I really like the MK6, but the price tag is hilarious. If I'm willing to pay that, I'm going Henny.

[ocabj]

Then we are in agreement. If I am going to plop down $1600 or more on glass, I am not buying Vortex or Athlon either. I would go with Leupold on the low end and Night Force on the high end.

Sure Vortex has great glass, so does Sig for that matter. I am still not going to drop $1600+ for a scope that I can spend $500-$800 on buying from another manufacturer.

I only had $700 to spend on my last glass purchase. I researched the hell outta what that could buy and every time I talked to people who had both Leupold VX-R and Vortex Vipers, they said the Athlon Argos was the same or better for 1/2 the cost.

The only issue people had with Athlon was fixed beginning this year and it was the grease used on the o-ring seals which caused mushy turrets.

So my $500 got me an Argos BTR FFP IR Milirad with an American Defense QD Recon instead of a Strike Eagle and PEPR. The Argos is the same as the Viper for quality and has a FFP IR added in which would have been closer to $800.

If I wanted Strike Eagle quality, I would have went with the Athlon Talos which is against nearly 1/2 the cost with a better reticle to boot.

That logic steps up all the way to the top of both manufacturers. A top of the line Athlon is gonna be 1/2 the cost of a top of the line Vortex and you get the same quality, same warranty and pretty much the same scope.

So why spend $2500 on a Vortex, or $1900 on a Athlon when I can buy a Night Force for $2200?

Heck I would buy a Sig instead of a Vortex just to stay out of the heard of people buying the same old stuff.

I bought the Vortex Razor HD Gen II 4.5-27x56 MRAD EBR-2C instead of the Nightforce ATACR F1 5-25x56 early last year. I wanted a tree reticle, and the Nightforce was at least $500 more and didn't come with illumination.

I decided to risk it on the Razor HD Gen II and have no regrets. Side by side at the range the HD Gen II is on par with the ATACR F1. IQ is virtually the same in the same conditions and it tracks. The Zerostop mechanism on the HD Gen II is arguably better than the ATACR F1.

If I were to make the decision again between a Razor HD Gen II and a Nightforce ATACR F1 today, I may think a little harder and might go with the ATACR F1 now that they offer illuminated tree reticles (H59 or TREMOR), but the price on those are hitting $3200+.

I actually have a Razor HD AMG on backorder with Brownells (after using a 10% coupon), so I'm probably going to let that ride out since I still need a scope for my rebuilt Savage not to mention I have a new bolt project in progress (action is still on order).

Anyway, if the features are equivalent between that $2500 Vortex and the $2200 Nightforce, then obviously you would get the Nightforce.

But I'm guessing the Nightforce lacks some features versus the Vortex you are comparing it to, which is why the price is lower. In which case, if those features are not important to you (e.g. illumination, FFP), then by all means go Nightforce.

Of course, we can all be pretentious and nuke this whole conversation out of the water and say buy Schmidt and Bender.

[longrange1]

Schmidt and Benders are not all that...I've looked through a couple and personally I would not pay that kinda money for one.


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[iFixit]

I bought the Vortex Razor HD Gen II 4.5-27x56 MRAD EBR-2C instead of the Nightforce ATACR F1 5-25x56 early last year. I wanted a tree reticle, and the Nightforce was at least $500 more and didn't come with illumination.

I decided to risk it on the Razor HD Gen II and have no regrets. Side by side at the range the HD Gen II is on par with the ATACR F1. IQ is virtually the same in the same conditions and it tracks. The Zerostop mechanism on the HD Gen II is arguably better than the ATACR F1.

If I were to make the decision again between a Razor HD Gen II and a Nightforce ATACR F1 today, I may think a little harder and might go with the ATACR F1 now that they offer illuminated tree reticles (H59 or TREMOR), but the price on those are hitting $3200+.

I actually have a Razor HD AMG on backorder with Brownells (after using a 10% coupon), so I'm probably going to let that ride out since I still need a scope for my rebuilt Savage not to mention I have a new bolt project in progress (action is still on order).

Anyway, if the features are equivalent between that $2500 Vortex and the $2200 Nightforce, then obviously you would get the Nightforce.

But I'm guessing the Nightforce lacks some features versus the Vortex you are comparing it to, which is why the price is lower. In which case, if those features are not important to you (e.g. illumination, FFP), then by all means go Nightforce.

Of course, we can all be pretentious and nuke this whole conversation out of the water and say buy Schmidt and Bender.

bing bing, correctomundo. Vortex has some great glass and I just want to say I am not knocking them. I am just saying shooters should not lump them into a group of high end optic manufacturers just because of a few of their offerings.

Vortex low cost $100 Crossfire line is miles ahead of a $250 UTG, Leapers, NC Star, or even low end Bushnell, Simmons or Redfield.

Top sports car manufacturers Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, Ford. This is what I mean. Ford makes one of the fastest sports car around. It can go head to head against any sports car. Does that put Ford in the group with Ferrari?

[CSTactical]

Vortex, Nightforce, Kahles, Minox and many others have different tiers from budget to high end.

[HK Dave]

bing bing, correctomundo. Vortex has some great glass and I just want to say I am not knocking them. I am just saying shooters should not lump them into a group of high end optic manufacturers just because of a few of their offerings.

Vortex low cost $100 Crossfire line is miles ahead of a $250 UTG, Leapers, NC Star, or even low end Bushnell, Simmons or Redfield.

Top sports car manufacturers Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, Ford. This is what I mean. Ford makes one of the fastest sports car around. It can go head to head against any sports car. Does that put Ford in the group with Ferrari?

Hmm I believe most folks that use high end optics, when they refer to a company, they are not referring to their budget lines, they're talking about the cream of the crop.

Anyhow enough about this. Arguing about this is stupid as hell.

Vortex, Nightforce, Kahles, Minox and many others have different tiers from budget to high end.

Like Mike said, there are budget to high end... hell, even Schmidt and Bender has low end scopes.