M1 garand value

[aghauler]

^^^^

couple nitpicks-

#2- not draw 'codes' but drawing number. as in a blueprint drawing from which the dimensions and specifications to manufacture the part are maintained. if a part was revised, the drawing number would show a revision number. eg bolts- basic drawing # D28287. WW2 revisions up -19. receivers, barrels and bolts also show specific heat treatment lots. WW2 barrels have drawing #, revision # and heat lot under the rear handguard.

#6- as of Dec 1941, Garand serials were at @400,000. the last rifles made during 1945 were in the 3.8 million serial range. of course any rifle manufactured before Dec 1941 could have and probably was used in WW2. upon restart of production in late 1950/early '51 serials started with 4.2 million.

#10 incorrect. it is common and to be expected to find original rifles with mis-matched finish colors. as a matter of fact, a rifle with all matching finish is a dead giveaway it is NOT original.

[/URL]

This may shed some light on the "finish subject" this is an email sent to me from Scott Duff direct I asked him about finish color and originality to the rifle below is his response, hope this is of some help.......


Bob,



This is a complex subject that I could not possibly address in a brief email. I could write pages on this, if there were more hours in the day.



The "general" bottom line is that during WWII neither SA nor WRA made any effort to match the Parkerized finish on the various components with each other. It may have happened by happenstance from time to time, but that was the exception not the rule. Early WWII SA and WRA rifles were generally more uniform in color and darker in color. But not always. By mid-late WWII most, but not all, receivers were lighter in color, most barrels and op rods were darker in color. That may have had to do with the variations in metallurgy of parts. Small parts could be any color, some were dark in color and others were light in color. No one can say for certain what color the parts on any specific rifle may have been during WWII. Keep in mind that with a war on to save the world from Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan, coupled with making over 4 million rifles, you will have random variation in colors of metal finish.



During 1950s production, the Parkerizing process had changed and most rifles were of a more uniform dark color.


Scott

[Discogodfather]

1. CMP sales exists to make money to support their main mission of the promotion of marksmanship. It is not a supply source for collectors. While I appreciate their pricing and have benefitted from being able to purchase from the DCM and CMP, I would not have any heartburn if, in order to better support their endowment and longer support marksmanship, they raised their prices on what they sell.

2. "Insanely high"? Ever since I have been cognizant of firearms, ammo, and accessories (since the mid 80s, so not that long), the DCM and CMP have had well-below-market-value prices on nearly everything they sold. The value of those items is determined nearly completely by factors well outside of the rate at which CMP sells their stock.

I respect your opinion but I think both your points are part of the CMP myth:

1) The CMP is a non profit organization. Their mission is to promote shooting sports and marksmanship training for the public. Their sales exist to get people rifles, not to make money. Their operating budget is only partially supported by sales.

2)CMP stopped selling anything of any collecting value about 6 years ago and opted for an online auction system. Correct grade and collectors grade are no longer sold at "under market prices". They did this not because they wanted to make huge amounts of profit, they did it because of the pressure the "collecting" contingent was applying. They used to do special promotions with waiting lists, etc.

My problem with the auctions is that people come in with seemingly endless money and inflate the prices beyond the value. That negatively effects the market, I would rather a system based on seniority or time spent on a waiting list, I waited 2 years for my M1D from the DCM in the late nineties. Could never afford that same rifle on their auction system nowadays.

[cannon]

1. CMP sales exists to make money to support their main mission of the promotion of marksmanship. It is not a supply source for collectors. While I appreciate their pricing and have benefitted from being able to purchase from the DCM and CMP, I would not have any heartburn if, in order to better support their endowment and longer support marksmanship, they raised their prices on what they sell.

2. "Insanely high"? Ever since I have been cognizant of firearms, ammo, and accessories (since the mid 80s, so not that long), the DCM and CMP have had well-below-market-value prices on nearly everything they sold. The value of those items is determined nearly completely by factors well outside of the rate at which CMP sells their stock.

I agree on the DCM selling well below market. My DCM H&R with an IH stock and NM barrel cost me a half day at the range and $65.00

[2761377]

I respect your opinion but I think both your points are part of the CMP myth:

1) The CMP is a non profit organization. Their mission is to promote shooting sports and marksmanship training for the public. Their sales exist to get people rifles, not to make money. Their operating budget is only partially supported by sales.

2)CMP stopped selling anything of any collecting value about 6 years ago and opted for an online auction system. Correct grade and collectors grade are no longer sold at "under market prices". They did this not because they wanted to make huge amounts of profit, they did it because of the pressure the "collecting" contingent was applying. They used to do special promotions with waiting lists, etc.

My problem with the auctions is that people come in with seemingly endless money and inflate the prices beyond the value. That negatively effects the market, I would rather a system based on seniority or time spent on a waiting list, I waited 2 years for my M1D from the DCM in the late nineties. Could never afford that same rifle on their auction system nowadays.

just curious, do you see the contradiction in your post? between the statements 'non-profit' and 'huge amounts of profit?

also, please enlighten me as to source of funding other than sales. CMP is not affiliated with DoD anymore; no funding by taxpayers.

lastly, you mis-remember the M-1D program. they were sold in successive lots by lottery. there was no "waiting list". I had three pass through my hands and could produce the CMP packets for each.

[Discogodfather]

just curious, do you see the contradiction in your post? between the statements 'non-profit' and 'huge amounts of profit?

also, please enlighten me as to source of funding other than sales. CMP is not affiliated with DoD anymore; no funding by taxpayers.

lastly, you mis-remember the M-1D program. they were sold in successive lots by lottery. there was no "waiting list". I had three pass through my hands and could produce the CMP packets for each.

1) There is no contradiction, re read it.
2) Endowment fund, read about it. They know the supply is going to run out eventually and have planned very well for it
3) The lottery or waiting list it accomplished the same thing: to offer people the ability to buy at good prices and somewhat negate the greedy collector whales that have fists full of cash. My M1D came from the first lot and it felt like a waiting list.

I don't blame the CMP for going the auction route, I just don't think they really care about the money angle. They just didn't want the headache.

[aghauler]

I was one of the lucky ones that scored on the old CMP Lottery system, got a call one day that I'd won a 03 Springfield cost was $165 + shipping. Turned out to be a USMC rebuild.

[I Swan]

My problem with the auctions is that people come in with seemingly endless money and inflate the prices beyond the value. That negatively effects the market, I would rather a system based on seniority or time spent on a waiting list, I waited 2 years for my M1D from the DCM in the late nineties. Could never afford that same rifle on their auction system nowadays.

I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to say. Like that you are angry that people with more money than you can and do outbid you? And why do you think you get to set the value on what Garands should cost? It's kind of a tired saying but there is some truth to the saying that thngs are worth what someone will pay for them. It may negatively affect the market from your standpoint if you can't afford something bt not maybe to those that own them.

So you're almost saying you want some sort of Obama socialist method of keeping the Garand prices cheap or something? Actually I feel CMP Garands are a good deal for the most part it's just a PITA Byzantine system to get one.

Actually I would be cool with veterans being entitled to a free or reduced price Garand.

[Pmoore87]

4 manufacturers, matching, non matching. USGI stock, new wood, WW2 era, post war. etc etc.
Too many variables. Value is between $500 and $15,000

I have the same questions as Notabiker, only he put them more succinctly than I could.I think we aware of the many variables ,and it will take time to learn them from books and the CMP Forum,etc, but it just seems a little weird to me that you can get an M1 Garand from the CMP for $625 plus S&H and have it be worth $1000 or more on Gunbroker or Turners,etc....and is an IHC worth a grand versus $625 for an HRA. I also have a Springfield M1 with a WWII era receiver....it seems that should be worth more than a post-war.

Do Garandanimal or other members have any suggestions on Garand primer type books?

The GCA (Garand Collectors Association) Has a table that they do every few years that shows which is worth what with which parts lol. It is in the GCA Journal earlier this year. Probably the very best estimate your gonna get. But the others are also right, its what someone is willing to pay. Send me a PM if you have any questions.

[Pmoore87]

You need to spend some time on the CMP forum and see how nice the $625 Service Grades are that are coming mail order.They are very nice cosmetically and great shooters. Very low muzzle, throat wear and very little wearto finish. Yes some do come with commercial stocks but many are still coming with nice USGI wood

They are coming out really nice lately. Mine last year had GI wood, original LMR barrel and had literally only fired its test shots. So that is gonna drive down the HRA resale values right now. The GCA journal said that one like mine would come in between 1.5 and 2.5 times the original value. Whereas a sub 1 million SA can be up to 4 times the value all depending on the parts and all the variables. It also depends what WWII date range your in. The rifles took about 9 months from receiver forging to completion at the start of the war. My April 42 SA probably did not leave the factory until the end of 1942 ish. There are a great many others with far knowledge than I over on the CMP forums. pro-nra really knows his stuff, and that is his name on here as well as CMP forums. Look for posts by him on the subject. Hope this helps you out a little although I know it likely just created more questions lol PM me if you need help

[toro1]

........ It also depends what WWII date range your in. The rifles took about 9 months from receiver forging to completion at the start of the war. My April 42 SA probably did not leave the factory until the end of 1942 ish.......

Are saying that it took ~9 months after the receiver was stamped with its S/N to leave the factory? I thought the S/N was assigned and stamped as it was completed and heading out the door.

[Citadelgrad87]

Are saying that it took ~9 months after the receiver was stamped with its S/N to leave the factory? I thought the S/N was assigned and stamped as it was completed and heading out the door.

That seems like an awfully long time, too.

Iirc we were putting carriers to see 9months after laying the keel during the war.

[I Swan]

It really is a dilemma. Should they charge less and get more rifles in peoples hands? Remember at one time it was one per lifetime. Or charge more to put away money for the future? Really I wonder how long they can go on when the guns are gone. And how many more years can it go on? I wonder if selling too slow or why they at one time was only 1 per person?

[Father Ted]

[peppermintman]

I respect your opinion but I think both your points are part of the CMP myth:

1) The CMP is a non profit organization. Their mission is to promote shooting sports and marksmanship training for the public. Their sales exist to get people rifles, not to make money. Their operating budget is only partially supported by sales.

2)CMP stopped selling anything of any collecting value about 6 years ago and opted for an online auction system. Correct grade and collectors grade are no longer sold at "under market prices". They did this not because they wanted to make huge amounts of profit, they did it because of the pressure the "collecting" contingent was applying. They used to do special promotions with waiting lists, etc.

My problem with the auctions is that people come in with seemingly endless money and inflate the prices beyond the value. That negatively effects the market, I would rather a system based on seniority or time spent on a waiting list, I waited 2 years for my M1D from the DCM in the late nineties. Could never afford that same rifle on their auction system nowadays.

Its not a myth. They are in it for the money thats why they have auctions on their rifles. Wish there was a way how much they get the surplus rifles for. They otta just fix em and sell em.
I fell off the fence when one fell into my arms and I love the rifle. But some are taking advantage and selling em for lots money. $625 is ok but 2 or 3 k for an auctioned rifle just seems like they're taking some nice rifles and aint sellin them. They auction them , for lots money. It aint no myth.

[Discogodfather]

So you're almost saying you want some sort of Obama socialist method of keeping the Garand prices cheap or something?

Oh no, you uncovered our Communist plan for world domination, it was supposed to start with CMP sales! Now we are going to have to find another way in.........