Cal Regs

[bobvonb]

COE

well, here's what I know, and don't know. The COE is required for people who work in gun stores, at least. It requires fingerprinting and costs a bit of money. I have all the forms but have not yet proceeded along this path because I'm not sure I need to. I have my C&R license and have been advised by one other person who has C&R that I need the COE too. I'm not sure I believe that, but I'd like some more information, authoritive information.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

I have my C&R license and have been advised by one other person who has C&R that I need the COE too. I'm not sure I believe that, but I'd like some more information, authoritive information.

It depends on how and where you want to acquire C&R firearms.

If you want to skip the 10 day waiting period when buying C&R firearms through a California Licensed Dealer, then you need to have a COE in addition to your C&R FFL.

If you want to avoid the 1 handgun per 30 days restriction when buying both modern and C&R handguns from a California Licensed Dealer, then you need to have a COE in addition to your C&R FFL.

Those are the only two instances listed in the California Penal Code where a C&R FFL needs to have a COE.

[bobvonb]

COE decoded

ok, thanks! good information. as I suspected my 'helpful' friend was wrong. He said the C&R was invalid without a COE in CA.

[Metazorro]

Sorry if I am missing a small point, but I have an 03 FFL, and am out of State. I sold a long arm that is on the ATF list to a California Resident, who also has on 03. Is there any problem with sending him the weapon?

best

richard

[jmlivingston]

No problem if the long arm is over 50 years old. If it's not 50yo then it needs to go to an 01FFL.

[Dekker]

What's the deal with CA's C&R exemption and having it mailed/shipped? From what I read, if the rifle is over 50 years old then it is exempt from having to go through a FFL01 for a PPT. It's always the same situation but I just can't get a straight answer. I live in CA and don't have a license, but I only want to purchase a C&R so if I can find someone who has it then I just have to bring cash and leave with it. Now here's the problem, most people who have the rifles I want live in CA but not within driving distance. Regulations are always hazy and blurred and don't always give it to you in black and white.

-I want a C&R Rifle but don't have a license.
-Generally the person selling the C&R either doesn't have a license or has an 03.
-I want to purchase it but they are not within traveling distance.
-Can this firearm legally be shipped(UPS/FedEx) or mailed(USPS) to me?

[jmlivingston]

If shipping it from outside of CA then it must be sent to an FFL holder. That's a federal requirement.

Inside of CA, it does seem to be not so quite cut-and-dry. I'll let others answer that for you.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

-I want a C&R Rifle but don't have a license.
-Generally the person selling the C&R either doesn't have a license or has an 03.
-I want to purchase it but they are not within traveling distance.
-Can this firearm legally be shipped(UPS/FedEx) or mailed(USPS) to me?

Like jmlivingston says, if the firearm is coming from somebody who is not a California resident then it generally has to go through a California Licensed Dealer in order to be transfered to an unlicensed person such as yourself.

If the firearm is coming from another California resident (who is not a California Licensed Dealer) and it is a C&R long gun that is at least 50 years old, then it is exempt from any requirements to be transfered through a California Licensed Dealer. There is nothing in the law saying such transfers have to be face to face. It's perfectly legal for somebody from San Francisco to mail a USGI M1 Garand to an 18 year old buyer from San Diego. That being said, most people won't want to ship a gun to a stranger. At minimum the seller should get a photocopy of the buyer's California Drivers License and ship only to the address on the license and pay extra for a service such as UPS's "Adult Signature Required". But there is really no way for the average person to verify if the Driver's License copy is even real. It could be photoshop'd by a 15 year old kid. When shipping to an FFL you can at least verify that the FFL is real by checking with BATFE.

Also, only UPS and USPS rules allow for shipping from one unlicensed person to another unlicensed person. FedEx and FedEx Ground rules don't allow it.

[spearedum]

One other useful feature of an 03 FLL (C&R License) is that the holder can....with possession of a CA Certificate of Eligibility....avoid the one-handgun-purchase-every-30-days rule. Nice little side benefit. As for criminality, an 03 FFL may take delivery of any long gun deemed to be a Curio & Relic directly from an out-of-state source. This means an 03 FFL holder can purchase a rifle from Auction Arms and get it mailed direct to him as long as it's over 50 years old. No harm, no foul.

Is a Yugo M48 considered a C&R, as it was not when I got my 03FFL in 03?

Thanx Dante'
Objects in mirror are closers than they appear:
DRIVE FASTER

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Is a Yugo M48 considered a C&R, as it was not when I got my 03FFL in 03?

Yes, they are listed by name on BATFE's C&R list...

Yugoslavian M1948 (M48) bolt action rifles, 7.92 x 57mm caliber, produced at the Kragujevac Arsenal, original military configuration only.

They were C&R back in 2003 as well. I don't know exactly when they were added to the C&R list, but it was before 2001. Also, since production of the M48 started in 1950, some of them would have started becoming C&R in the year 2000 based solely on their age.

Military surplus firearms can't be imported into the U.S. unless they are C&R firearms. So the fact importers were bringing them in back then means that they were C&R back then.

[ArtyB]

?

Here's the deal guys:

Any california resident (excluding 01 FFL dealers if the long gun in question is part of his dealer inventory) can transfer a 50+ year old long gun to another california resident without any paperwork, background check, DROS, etc. This means I can sell my 56 year old mosin to anyone in the state without going through a dealer.

Then why did I have to fill out a ton of paperwork, pay $25, and wait 10 days to buy a 70+ year old Mosin?

[Vin496]

Then why did I have to fill out a ton of paperwork, pay $25, and wait 10 days to buy a 70+ year old Mosin?

Did you buy it from a gun store?

Have you read and understood everything in this thread, especially the post you quoted?

[IrishPirate]

excludes all handguns?? are you sure? i never saw anything about that! i know for a fact Tula Takarev tt-33's are C&R eligable. I think you're the one confused buddy.

[IrishPirate]

Penal Code Section 12072 (d) requires that all firearms be transferred through a California dealer. There is no exception for Type 03 FFL holders.

yes there is. It says so on the CA DOJ website. you dont need to go through a DEALER, you need to go through an FFL holder...a C&R license is an FFL license. You can only purchase C&R items this way, otherwise, what would be the point of having a C&R license if you had to go through a dealer? think before you post

[jmlivingston]

excludes all handguns?? are you sure? i never saw anything about that! i know for a fact Tula Takarev tt-33's are C&R eligable. I think you're the one confused buddy.

He's talking about the net effect of both California and Federal law. Yes the Fed's have qualified that there are C&R's less than 50 years old, both rifles and handguns. Problem is you still have to meet state laws, and CA says only firearms of 50 y.o. or greater can be PPT'd without going through a licensed dealer.

yes there is. It says so on the CA DOJ website. you dont need to go through a DEALER, you need to go through an FFL holder...a C&R license is an FFL license. You can only purchase C&R items this way, otherwise, what would be the point of having a C&R license if you had to go through a dealer? think before you post

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12070.php

Where neither party to the transaction holds a dealer's license issued pursuant to Section 12071, the parties to the transaction shall complete the sale, loan, or transfer of that firearm through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Section 12082.

Have you even read most of this thread? I suggest you heed your own advice and

think before you post

You also might want to check your attitude at the door.....

John