SKS detachable magazines

[Yugo]

How is the Yugo not an sks, exactly?

cause im russian

[MajorSideburns]

According to you, no one does.

You're still not getting it, are you? And it's not according to me, it's according to our law. I don't understand what you are trying to argue here. Our state ban has been litigated in the courts. The answers for you are right at the top of your screen under "CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart". https://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

[bwiese]

Sounds like a pretty weak argument. While not all of the Yugos bear the SKS engraving, some of them do.

Ohio Ordnance, Mitchell's, SDI, and TGKnoxville, all stamped "SKS" on their Yugo Imports.

Not to mention the fact that barring stock wood, the M59 is an exact copy of post 1954, final Soviet sks design. Or that major parts and components are interchangeable between all of the national variants.

It is not. Why are there AR variants all over the place? There's a reason rifles are called "Off list". You're about 18 yrs behind.
You can buy an AR-style rifle at any gunshop, with modified grip etc. - it just can't say Colt AR15 or Bushmaster XM15 or a
dozen other make/model combos.

Harrott v County of Kings, June, 2001 CA Supreme Ct ruling.

1. California requires 'make and model' specificity to be listed as a banned 'series' member for ARs/AKS.

2. The only 'series' in the original Roberti-Roos law are for "AR15-series" and "AK47 series" "Series" is not listed
as descrptor for any other gun on the Roberti Roos list of banned AWs - thus there are no others "series" inferrable
(Expresio unius...). You just can't copy words from one section to another.

3. "SKS with detachable magazine" is banned. But for other models to be banned they'd have to also be specifically
listed or added by legislation. There was no "Simonov Series" nor "SKS series" etc.

In 2007 via AB2728 DOJ via legislature gave up special listing ability. If a new gun was to be 'banned by name' as AW
it would take special new legislation; only additional AR or AK 'series members' could be added to the Kasler list of
banned AR/AKs - but only after public comment period and publication in Calif. Code of Regulations. Neither the
Roberti-Roos list was updated since the 90s nor the Kasler list updated after fall 2000.

There was an "SKS cleanup bill" in 1997 that banned again SKS w detachable magazines, created a buy back, and
was targeted at SKS from China having AK mags etc.

4. The "Yugo SKS" is only a colloquial term. It is formally a Zastava Arms M59 or M59/66 and is marked on receiver.

This gun is a distinct model, and even the CA DOJ terms them this in their bulletin warning about Destructive
Device status of M59/66 guns with grenade launchers attached.

Legally, a Zastava M59 is not an "SKS". Period.


5. It is legal to thus make Yugo "SKS" non-SKS Model 59 have a detachable 10rd or less magazine and not violate CA AW laws.

However 18 USC 922r / 27 CFR 478.39 "domestic parts content" law and "10 or less key foreign parts" law needs to be
observed and a suitable number of US parts added if gun modfied to have a DM. This can be a problem since the US parts |
around seem not to be of good quality (unlike those for FALs, etc.) Unclear of the quality on the detachable mags too.

[boris badinov]

It is not. Why are there AR variants all over the place? There's a reason rifles are called "Off list". You're about 18 yrs behind.
You can buy an AR-style rifle at any gunshop, with modified grip etc. - it just can't say Colt AR15 or Bushmaster XM15 or a
dozen other make/model combos.

Heller v County of Kings, June, 2001 CA Supreme Ct ruling.

1. California requires 'make and model' specificity to be listed as a banned 'series' member for ARs/AKS.

2. The only 'series' in the original Roberti-Roos law are for "AR15-series" and "AK47 series" "Series" is not listed
as descrptor for any other gun on the Roberti Roos list of banned AWs - thus there are no others "series" inferrable
(Expresio unius...). You just can't copy words from one section to another.

3. "SKS with detachable magazine" is banned. But for other models to be banned they'd have to also be specifically
listed or added by legislation. There was no "Simonov Series" nor "SKS series" etc.

In 2007 via AB2728 DOJ via legislature gave up special listing ability. If a new gun was to be 'banned by name' as AW
it would take special new legislation; only additional AR or AK 'series members' could be added to the Kasler list of
banned AR/AKs - but only after public comment period and publication in Calif. Code of Regulations. Neither the
Roberti-Roos list was updated since the 90s nor the Kasler list updated after fall 2000.

There was an "SKS cleanup bill" in 1997 that banned again SKS w detachable magazines, created a buy back, and
was targeted at SKS from China having AK mags etc.

4. The "Yugo SKS" is only a colloquial term. It is formally a Zastava Arms M59 or M59/66 and is marked on receiver.

This gun is a distinct model, and even the CA DOJ terms them this in their bulletin warning about Destructive
Device status of M59/66 guns with grenade launchers attached.

Legally, a Zastava M59 is not an "SKS". Period.


5. It is legal to thus make Yugo "SKS" non-SKS Model 59 have a detachable 10rd or less magazine and not violate CA AW laws.

However 18 USC 922r / 27 CFR 478.39 "domestic parts content" law and "10 or less key foreign parts" law needs to be
observed and a suitable number of US parts added if gun modfied to have a DM. This can be a problem since the US parts |
around seem not to be of good quality (unlike those for FALs, etc.) Unclear of the quality on the detachable mags too.

Okay. Okay.



In the current political and social climate, I still say it's a weak argument going forward. AW laws can quickly change. Just ask gun owners in Washington, or Illinois.

And GOP candidates haven't helped with losses and poor showings in three consecutive cycles. Trump also lost the popular vote in 2016..

The "Yugo SKS" is only a colloquial term. It is formally a Zastava Arms M59 or M59/66 and is marked on receiver.

Many of the Yugos have "SKS" clearly stamped on the barrel or receiver.


"Legally, a Zastava M59 is not an "SKS" Period. comma for now."

[19K]

Many of the Yugos have "SKS" clearly stamped on the barrel or receiver.


"Legally, a Zastava M59 is not an "SKS" Period. comma for now."

You realize those stamps are from the importers. The importer could stamp ?full auto? or ?space laser? or ?dildo gun? on it.

That doesn?t make it so. I agree with you, you will probably get arrested by an anti gunner. People are arrested all the time for perfectly legal activities due to government overreach and forced to pay thousands of dollars defending themselves against the court system ultimately to be found not guilty.

[19K]

In real life some of us have jobs, mortgages, families and don't have time let alone the money to waste on legal fees , or gun collections to jeopardize on the legal advice of experts on gun forums.

You don't own any detachable mag M59 or 59/66, or M56, or NK, NVA or other non-import bringbacks, do you?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

Why would a collector bubba their gun?

[boris badinov]

You realize those stamps are from the importers. The importer could stamp ?full auto? or ?space laser? or ?dildo gun? on it..

Importers can't do that.

Straight from the ATF:
"Licensed manufacturers and importers are required to mark firearms manufactured or imported with specific identifying information."

[boris badinov]

Why would a collector bubba their gun?

Collectors do all kinds of things.

Besides, a detachable duckbill mag isn't a bubba modification. The original mag can be replaced without permanently altering the rifle.

[19K]

Importers can't do that.

Straight from the ATF:
"Licensed manufacturers and importers are required to mark firearms manufactured or imported with specific identifying information."

Since importers can change the model of the firearm from ?M59? to ?sks?
Why couldn?t they change the model from M59 to ?dildo machine gun??

[boris badinov]

Since importers can change the model of the firearm from ?M59? to ?sks?
Why couldn?t they change the model from M59 to ?dildo machine gun??

Because they are required to use "specific identifying information"

i.e. why the "it's not an sks" argument is a weak argument.


All legal, and semantic prestidigitation aside, early importers stamped SKS, because, well, it's still an sks.

Looks like a duck, walks like a duck. And hey it also quacks. We call that a duck.

[19K]

Because they are required to use "specific identifying information"

i.e. why the "it's not an sks" argument is a weak argument.


All legal, and semantic prestidigitation aside, early importers stamped SKS, because, well, it's still an sks.

Looks like a duck, walks like a duck. And hey it also quacks. We call that a duck.

Just like an AR15 is an AR15, no matter who makes it.

And this is a Glock

And this is a Springfield XD


And this is a Browning Hi-Power

[boris badinov]

There are two separate realities at work here. Legal and actual.

Legal reality allows us to disregard what our eyes tell us to be true-- purely on technicalities.

Actual reality tells us that what we are looking at is in fact what we see.


Only one of these can be changed. Care to guess which one it is?


One of the most telling demonstrations of how tenuous this legal reality is as it regards to rifle model specificity, is how worked up some get when they have to go into multi-paragraph explanations of why what we can all clearly see isn't (technically) what we see.

[19K]

There are two separate realities at work here. Legal and actual.

Legal reality allows us to disregard what our eyes tell us to be true-- purely on technicalities.

Actual reality tells us that what we are looking at is in fact what we see.


Only one of these can be changed. Care to guess which one it is?


One of the most telling demonstrations of how tenuous this legal reality is as it regards to rifle model specificity, is how worked up some get when they have to go into multi-paragraph explanations of why what we can all clearly see isn't (technically) what we see.

If it was an SKS that would have been the rifles model designation made by the dozens of countries who manufactured it, including eastern block countries who directly received aid from the Soviet Union.

To simplify things we simply call it an ?sks?. Same with AR-15s, mosin nagants, Lee enfields, martini Henry?s, Mausers, 1911s, Lugers. These are general terms Gun owners and the media use. As has been said before, these general terms do not apply to actual law.

[boris badinov]

If it was an SKS that would have been the rifles model designation made by the dozens of countries who manufactured it, including eastern block countries who directly received aid from the Soviet Union.

What you are articulating is the legal reality.

Unfortunately, it does not make it actually true, only legal.

Three Makarov PMs-- Soviet, Bulgarian, East German-- and one Chinese Type59.


Without googling the image, which one is which? Welcome to actual, non legal reality.

[boris badinov]

If it was an SKS that would have been the rifles model designation made by the dozens of countries who manufactured it, including eastern block countries who directly received aid from the Soviet Union.
.

Dozens of countries that manufactured it?