Lets see your .223 California Legal Self Loading Rifle!

[hollowpoint67]

With your reasoning, since people survived the Civil War with muzzle loaders, than I would be just fine using one in modern combat. Why not, it's "sufficient."

thats some legit logic right there, anyone want to buy my .223s? will trade for muzzle loader, with or without bayonet +/- cash on my end.

[Jeffu]

Your reasoning is absolutely mind boggling. Just because they survived, does not mean they were doing everything the best possible way. No matter who you are (with maybe a few medical exceptions) it is absolutely proven that shooting with a mag-well grip is worse off. You just plain don't have the control you do with your arm further out. It is science.

With your reasoning, since people survived the Civil War with muzzle loaders, than I would be just fine using one in modern combat. Why not, it's "sufficient."

I am personally not looking to be "sufficient," I am looking to be proficient. There for I look for every little advantage I can get to make myself a faster, more accurate, and overall better shooter.

On a side note, I have said this before, and I will say it again. Just because someone is LEO or Mil, doesn't mean that they know what they are doing. I have met a plethora of Mil and LEOs who don't know diddly squat about the firearms they are using, or how to properly employ them. It's actually a minority, in both cases, that are really locked on.

I think we have derailed this thread enough, so I quickly snapped a pic just for the thread's sake:

****ing beautiful

[ChrisO]

you guys do realize that plenty of military personnel overseas have used magwell grips and even "full retard" (what a stupid name) grips on a vfg in actual combat and what a surprise, those grip didnt cause them to die, right?

you weekend warriors laugh at others using magwell grips/vfg even though actual military personnel have used them but cream yourselves when watching high speed low drag OPERATOR chris costa in their super cool OPERATOR training videos using a thumb over bore grip.

thumb over bore grip may work for you and thats great. Magwell grips/vfg grips work for others. Its all personnel preference

It's not about what chris costa uses it's about what WORKS best. Thumb over bore gives you more control. Magwell grip gives you almost NO control while transitioning target to target. Set up some targets at close range lets say almost like a presidente drill and use a magwell grip,straight VFG,then thumb over bore (thumb break) grip. You WILL notice a speed increase and better control. It seems like someone has a stick up their butt or a bone to pick .

A magwell grip may suffice in certain situations but it does not mean it is the best. I'm not ok with "It works fine for so and so" I want to take advantage of every possible technique that makes me more efficient with a firearm because when the day comes to depend on a weapon to keep my self alive, Well I'm not OK with it working for (Military personnel) wich means jack S*** to me.

[ChrisO]

Your reasoning is absolutely mind boggling. Just because they survived, does not mean they were doing everything the best possible way. No matter who you are (with maybe a few medical exceptions) it is absolutely proven that shooting with a mag-well grip is worse off. You just plain don't have the control you do with your arm further out. It is science.

With your reasoning, since people survived the Civil War with muzzle loaders, than I would be just fine using one in modern combat. Why not, it's "sufficient."

I am personally not looking to be "sufficient," I am looking to be proficient. There for I look for every little advantage I can get to make myself a faster, more accurate, and overall better shooter.

On a side note, I have said this before, and I will say it again. Just because someone is LEO or Mil, doesn't mean that they know what they are doing. I have met a plethora of Mil and LEOs who don't know diddly squat about the firearms they are using, or how to properly employ them. It's actually a minority, in both cases, that are really locked on.

I think we have derailed this thread enough, so I quickly snapped a pic just for the thread's sake:

Very nice.

[Djskrilla89]

better pics..

[badicedog]

Very nice Gentlemen!!! Keep the pics coming.

[tomd1584]

[pacrimguru]

Your reasoning is absolutely mind boggling. Just because they survived, does not mean they were doing everything the best possible way. No matter who you are (with maybe a few medical exceptions) it is absolutely proven that shooting with a mag-well grip is worse off. You just plain don't have the control you do with your arm further out. It's science.

With your reasoning, since people survived the Civil War with muzzle loaders, than I would be just fine using one in modern combat. Why not, it's "sufficient."

I am personally not looking to be "sufficient," I am looking to be proficient. Therefore I look for every little advantage I can get to make myself a faster, more accurate, and overall better shooter.

On a side note, I have said this before, and I will say it again. Just because someone is LEO or Mil, doesn't mean that they know what they are doing. I have met a plethora of Mil and LEOs who don't know diddly squat about the firearms they are using, or how to properly employ them. It's actually a minority, in both cases, that are really locked on.

I think we have derailed this thread enough, so I snapped a pic real quick for the thread's sake:

It's not about what chris costa uses it's about what WORKS best. Thumb over bore gives you more control. Magwell grip gives you almost NO control while transitioning target to target. Set up some targets at close range lets say almost like a presidente drill and use a magwell grip,straight VFG,then thumb over bore (thumb break) grip. You WILL notice a speed increase and better control. It seems like someone has a stick up their butt or a bone to pick .

A magwell grip may suffice in certain situations but it does not mean it is the best. I'm not ok with "It works fine for so and so" I want to take advantage of every possible technique that makes me more efficient with a firearm because when the day comes to depend on a weapon to keep my self alive, Well I'm not OK with it working for (Military personnel) wich means jack S*** to me.

+1 to all of the above.

[dousan]

First time posting here, so why not

my rifle, not crazy about the forward grip honestly. might dump it soon.



wife's rifle. she likes the eotech, but she might want to take my ACOG instead. Rather buy her one of her own!

[racky]

i recently "aquired" a true mil-spec SOPMOD knights rail. huge upgrade from my cheap-o UTG rail. it was the last upgrade i needed to be able to say, "it's not a cheap build."


before (top) and after SOPMOD (bottom):

[Cali4nia_AR]

AWESOME!

[Echidin]

[ThatsJustBadTaste]

Here she is

[keson]

[Trendkill]

This gun will have an optic in the next picture..