Anyone heard of a Supertool?

[GREENONE1]

Do not buy any magnetic magazine release tools.
Do not buy any magnetic magazine release tools.
Do not buy any magnetic magazine release tools.

Most of these guys claim their products to be legal; they are not in CA. The only time you can legally use these is out of state where a BB is not required anyways or on a featureless rifle, again where a BB is not required anyways. This is a felony waiting to happen for you! DO NOT BUY.

The law makes no distinction on the amount of time something is attached for to determine if it is a tool. Therefore any magnetic device that attaches itself to the rifle or part of the rifle, BB included, for ANY LENGTH OF TIME (even fractions of a second) is considered a part of that rifle and not an independent tool. EVERY TIME YOU USE A MAGNETIC "TOOL" TO RELEASE A MAG YOU ARE COMMITTING A FELONY. PLEASE WARN YOUR FELLOW SHOOTERS!

Do not buy any magnetic magazine release tools.

I personally don't submit to "masters" myself and prefer information (facts) over other people's conjecture. Can you please explain why they are not legal? Since you're an expert on the issue of course...

Too many times in this industry I've experienced other people creating their own firearms laws and regulations that don't exist in order to be "safe" from the law man.

This "safety" that supposed guns lovers are promoting is usually not based on reality or law and is only serving to assist the anti-firearm agenda. Those that subscribe to this strategy are weak and should be silenced with truth.

All these rediculous laws to strip us of our rights are created by ignorant people that should be pushed back and not implemented further by other ignorant people. In otherwords, don't become a supertool in order to protect yourself against supertools.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

[GREENONE1]

Looks to me that Senator Yee attempted to rewrite the bill in 2012 to include magnetism...

Dated July 07, 2012

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2012/07/12/bullet-button-supporters-intensify-campaign-against-state-sen-yee/

Then this bill DIED in the assembly in August of 2012...

Dated August 21,2012

http://www.humanevents.com/2012/08/21/shocker-gun-laws-fail-to-pass-in-california/

I'm not an expert on this but isn't this evidence to support a precedence that magnets are legal to use? I mean since the bill did not pass?

[IPSICK]

So once the magnet attaches and takes hold of the bullet button, how does it not make the rifle a detachable mag rifle. This has been debated countless times and those under the false belief that this is legal in California in anything other than a featureless centerfire or a rimfire are an overwhelming minority. You could try it but don't expect any help on any potential legal defense fees.

[SouperMan]

Looks to me that Senator Yee attempted to rewrite the bill in 2012 to include magnetism...

Dated July 07, 2012

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2012/07/12/bullet-button-supporters-intensify-campaign-against-state-sen-yee/

Then this bill DIED in the assembly in August of 2012...

Dated August 21,2012

http://www.humanevents.com/2012/08/21/shocker-gun-laws-fail-to-pass-in-california/

I'm not an expert on this but isn't this evidence to support a precedence that magnets are legal to use? I mean since the bill did not pass?

Just because it did not get banned by those bills doesn't give those magnetic magazine tools the legal precedence to make them legal.

I do not advocate any magnetic magazine release tool as the central issue at hand is how a fixed magazine transforms into a non-fixed magazine when the magnetic button release tool is deployed. Unless the weapon is featureless, a magnetic magazine release tool exposes the user to a felony possession of a assault weapon in the State of California by virtue of its "non-fixed" magazine.

I don't recall of a legal action/case for the magnet magazine release tool but if I recall correctly the position of the CGF is to not use these magnetic release tools.

[infringed711]

It is technically using a tool to release the magazine but I wouldn't feel comfortable betting my freedom on a technicality in this state

[MrPlink]

OK kids, Ill sort this out for you since it seems nobody is tracking.

Magnets are problematic because they effectively convert your bullet button, radd lock etc etc into NOT a fixed magazine.
The problem in that instance is not with the magnet but the rifle itself, assuming we are talking about a centerfire semiauto rifle with evil features here. Now, if you are still not tracking then you are way ahead of yourself even by being this thread and need to spend some time reading the flow charts at the top of the forum.

Is owning one of these magnets itself a crime ?
Not at all.
Are there legitimate uses for them? Sure. If you slap a rimfire upper on your AR rifle, convert to featureless, convert to bolt action or go out of state.

Of course if you have ever built your own lower then you know how easy it is to swap out mag locks for a standard assembly which makes the magnet a little silly, but its your money.

[naeco81]

I personally don't submit to "masters" myself and prefer information (facts) over other people's conjecture. Can you please explain why they are not legal? Since you're an expert on the issue of course...

I did explain why they are not legal in the very quote you posted:

The law makes no distinction on the amount of time something is attached for to determine if it is a tool. Therefore any magnetic device that attaches itself to the rifle or part of the rifle, BB included, for ANY LENGTH OF TIME (even fractions of a second) is considered a part of that rifle and not an independent tool. EVERY TIME YOU USE A MAGNETIC "TOOL" TO RELEASE A MAG YOU ARE COMMITTING A FELONY. PLEASE WARN YOUR FELLOW SHOOTERS!

That's why they're illegal. You can also search on Calguns for "mag magnet" or "magnetic tool" and find plenty of threads where other people have posted about this. Or you can PM Bill Wiese and ask him.

Your whole tirade about people caving too easily is irrelevant. This has nothing to do with caving and everything to do with keeping honest, law abiding gun owners out of jail. Given that you just created this account I'm inclined to believe you are the same OP just trying to shill. But hey, if you believe so strongly in your commitment to liberty that you want to question mine then go right ahead and make a video of you using this product in California on a centerfire featured rifle. I'll let the DOJ give you all the proof you need after that.

[rm1911]

supertool makes a magnetic bullet button. or should that read

a supertool makes a magnetic bullet button. or should that read

a magnetic bullet button is made by a supertool. or should that read

guy makes a magnetic bullet button. advertises it on CG. he's a supertool.

eh, take your pick

[Chaos47]

GREENONE1, interesting first two posts.

[ke6guj]

Ask yourself this, if one of the vendors that sells these magnetic locks says that it is legal for you to use on a featured gun if you "only leave it attached while you are changing the mag", why does he do all his demos on a featureless gun.

And I thought I saw another vendor using a featured gun but with a dedicated .22lr upper on it.

looks like two vendors telling their customers that it is legal to use it on a featured semi-auto centerfire rifle, but apparently not willing to use it themselves at the show.

[GREENONE1]

I did explain why they are not legal in the very quote you posted:



That's why they're illegal. You can also search on Calguns for "mag magnet" or "magnetic tool" and find plenty of threads where other people have posted about this. Or you can PM Bill Wiese and ask him.

Your whole tirade about people caving too easily is irrelevant. This has nothing to do with caving and everything to do with keeping honest, law abiding gun owners out of jail. Given that you just created this account I'm inclined to believe you are the same OP just trying to shill. But hey, if you believe so strongly in your commitment to liberty that you want to question mine then go right ahead and make a video of you using this product in California on a centerfire featured rifle. I'll let the DOJ give you all the proof you need after that.

The law makes no distinction on the amount of time? If there is no amount of time required by law then wouldn't it stand to reason that time is not a factor?

The law actually reads that the tool can not be permanently attached to the rifle. If you look up magnet, the definition reads that it's a material that attracts...attract is not the same word as attach.

Then there's Calguns original post...the one dating back to 2009. Mag Magnet as a company has been around since before 2009...since they are the subject of the thread. I was shocked to find their website! If this is such an evil item that puts people in jail then why are they still in business?

Upon further research, I cannot find any legitimate legal explanations nor any reasonable facts that back up the claim that this item is indeed going to create felons. Don't you think if it did that there would have been one story in the past 4 years? I have found however a number of emotionally fueled arguments on this website supported by zero facts. Hmmm...This sounds rather familiar....oh I KNOW! This is how the left supports gun control! Now I get it!

Look I'm not trying to pick a fight here, I'm just sick of all the libs pushing everyone around with ignorant solutions for violence and self defense. I'm a United States Marine Corps infantry veteran that stands up in the face of tyranny and will FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE FIGHT FOR FREEDOM.

From my research, it seems to me that this tool provides just this. I for one applaud them.

Now, strap on your big boy panties, pull out a dictionary and listen. As I mentioned previously, I don't adhere to other people's conjecture (other people's opinions) and nobody here has provided a single ounce of evidence to support the fact that this tool is going to send you to jail. YOUR word is NOT FACT. Neither is what Joe Bob Frank or Tom has told you.

Do you know what the difference is between the anti-gun establishment and us (if you are one of us)? One dictates divisive action to provide safety while the other seeks common sense solutions to provide freedom.

Your research, fact finding mission and public safety notices should be focused on fighting the opposition through facts that support our rights NOT the rediculous anti-gun agenda.

Until then, you my friend are either a confused firearms owner or a gun control advocate pretending to be one.

It's time to either wake up, stand and fight or be honest with yourself.

_____This message is for everyone here that has argued this point_______

[IPSICK]

GREENONE1, interesting first two posts.

Now 3. A shill-ing for his thoughts.

Now I'm more confused. I can't tell if I'm anti-gun or a confused gun owner. Maybe I just don't want to be a test case.

I'm starting to think more and more that the use of the term "supertool" is really ironic or a sick joke.

[MrPlink]

Green,

What a beautiful mixture of logical fallacy and gross misunderstanding of the fundamental mechanics of criminal law.

Im going to be very blunt with you.

Want to actually rise to the conviction you claim via keyboard ?
Educate yourself.

P.S.
This is FAR from a new discussion, and I dont believe there is a single learned mind on this forum that would even remotely share your conclusion (which happens to include genuine lawyers btw) but if you really think you are on to something knock yourself out

[GREENONE1]

Green,

What a beautiful mixture of logical fallacy and gross misunderstanding of the fundamental mechanics of criminal law.

Im going to be very blunt with you.

Want to actually rise to the conviction you claim via keyboard ?
Educate yourself.

P.S.
This is FAR from a new discussion, and I dont believe there is a single learned mind on this forum that would even remotely share your conclusion (which happens to include genuine lawyers btw) but if you really think you are on to something knock yourself out

As I mentioned provide fact. You have none.

Fallacy? Which part? Please enlighten me...

[strongpoint]

Anyone heard of a Supertool?

i'm quoting below from another recent thread in which a poster explained the anti-magnet logic in unusually concise terms.

Ask yourself 'why do we need to buy a bullet button?'.

When you have answered the above question, ask yourself 'how is a mag magnet on a bullet button any different from having no bullet button at all?'

Then ask 'If I have to have a bullet button per line 1 above, then how can a mag magnet on a bullet button be legal?'

as for the rest of the post, plink has it pretty well characterized as

a beautiful mixture of logical fallacy and gross misunderstanding of the fundamental mechanics of criminal law.

look, we all know what the law SHOULD be (or at least we each have our own ideas), but that's not necessarily the same thing as what the law IS. tilting at the windmill is all well and good, but it has to be done a certain way; simply ignoring the law and its implications is not the way unless you're prepared to accept some serious consequences.

if you wanna buck that, you go for it. we'll see you back here in 5 to 10 years and you can tell us all how it went.