Anyone heard of a Supertool?

[GREENONE1]

Nowhere in any of my posts did I advocate breaking the law nor am I ignoring it...All I'm saying is that I want to see the facts that supports this thing is breaking the law. Every post here only provides opinion or other people's opinion or other people's opinion of opinions.

The only evidence on the web is a bill that did not pass.

[naeco81]

A magnetic "tool" creates a detachable magazine for the duration it is magnetically attached to the rifle. If you have a centerfire featured rifle this means you just created an AW which earns you a felony charge. We have given you the facts several times over. You are the one questioning our motivations for doing so. If you believe so strongly in your legal misunderstanding then please, make a video of you using this product within California on a featured centerfire rifle, or just answer these questions:

Why are you so afraid to do this if you are clearly convinced that we are trying to push an anti-gun agenda? Why do NONE of the makers of these products demonstrate them on featured centerfire rifles in California? Why don't people hang their non magnetic BB tools from their rifle? Why did MagMagnet used to include this disclaimer:

For use in California, do not leave Mag Magnet on rifle at any time. Mag Magnet Inc. shall not be held responsible in any way for the inappropriate use of the product by the user. User assumes all liability and risks associated with ownership and use of this product. Mag Magnet Inc. shall not be held responsible in any way for the inappropriate use of this product by the user. User assumes all liability and risks associated with ownership and use of this product.

Here's their page today; notice how they make absolutely ZERO mention of using it in any capacity on a featured centerfire rifle in California? Why do you think that is?

You are either a shill or someone with a dangerous amount of stupidity. If you had even a basic understanding of our legal system you would understand the distinction between fact and opinion is near impossible. Everything is a legal opinion, even a SCOTUS decision. That's because the law is living - it is constantly interpreted in new ways and DA's bring charges based on their legal opinion. You can chest thump all day about your commitment to liberty but that's pretty laughable; how about you chuck a few bucks toward the orgs fighting for our rights instead of trying to steer some shooters toward a felony?

Or take my earlier advice and ignore what I say and instead listen to Bill Wiese:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=238857

The simple truth is we have explained why this is a felony waiting to happen. If you are so sincere in your quest to prove your understanding is superior, then go ahead and make that video. What harm could come from it, right?

[viper37]

Do not buy any magnetic magazine release tools.
Do not buy any magnetic magazine release tools.
Do not buy any magnetic magazine release tools.

Most of these guys claim their products to be legal; they are not in CA. The only time you can legally use these is out of state where a BB is not required anyways or on a featureless rifle, again where a BB is not required anyways. This is a felony waiting to happen for you! DO NOT BUY.

The law makes no distinction on the amount of time something is attached for to determine if it is a tool. Therefore any magnetic device that attaches itself to the rifle or part of the rifle, BB included, for ANY LENGTH OF TIME (even fractions of a second) is considered a part of that rifle and not an independent tool. EVERY TIME YOU USE A MAGNETIC "TOOL" TO RELEASE A MAG YOU ARE COMMITTING A FELONY. PLEASE WARN YOUR FELLOW SHOOTERS!

Do not buy any magnetic magazine release tools.

CHILL THE **** OUT AND STOP POSTING IN RIDICULOUS SIZE FONTS.

Lets see some case law to back up any of what you just said. What's the difference between putting this magnet device on a rifle, replacing the magazine, then removing the magnet device vs. placing a non magnetic tool in the bb, replacing the mag and removing the tool?

I'll give you a hint, there isn't one. Stop trying to emulate encyclopedia dramatica post formatting.

[naeco81]

CHILL THE **** OUT AND STOP POSTING IN RIDICULOUS SIZE FONTS.

Lets see some case law to back up any of what you just said. What's the difference between putting this magnet device on a rifle, replacing the magazine, then removing the magnet device vs. placing a non magnetic tool in the bb, replacing the mag and removing the tool?

I'll give you a hint, there isn't one. Stop trying to emulate encyclopedia dramatica post formatting.

The difference is one is attached to the rifle and one is not. If you stick a bullet tip in a BB and cant the rifle sideways it will fall out. Do the same with a magnetic or friction based "tool" and it does not. I absolutely will not stop using emphasis to warn shooters about the risks - they are intended to be annoyingly large.

[vintagearms]

GREENONE1, interesting first two posts.

This a guy who got banned before and is under a different account. Im gonna report it and see what happens.

[duckman1]

Don't confuse the Webster definition with "The Courts" definition it could and often times has a completely different meaning.

[Kestryll]

So I'm curious, since you either work for or own Supertool (an '@supertoolusa.com email address kinda gives it away) why did you not make that clear in your posting?

As for the legality. an item or part that affixes or attaches to the weapon becomes a part of the weapon. When a magnetic button is attached to the weapon the magazine can be released without the aid of a tool.
A rifle with listed features that can release the magazine without disassembly or use of a tool is an illegal 'assault weapon' under the law.

Since you do not 'submit to masters' and are sure of the legality of your product here's a challenge for you, it comes in two parts.

A) Take and post to youtube a video of yourself IN CALIFORNIA using a magnetic release tool on an AR pattern rifle WITH listed features, a pistol grip, flash hider and forward pistol grip.

B) Demonstrate your product at gun shows with the same rifle with all the same features.

If it is indeed legal you should have no problem doing these two things.
If you do not do these two things you are admitting that the product is NOT legal.

It's that simple.

I personally don't submit to "masters" myself and prefer information (facts) over other people's conjecture. Can you please explain why they are not legal? Since you're an expert on the issue of course...

Too many times in this industry I've experienced other people creating their own firearms laws and regulations that don't exist in order to be "safe" from the law man.

This "safety" that supposed guns lovers are promoting is usually not based on reality or law and is only serving to assist the anti-firearm agenda. Those that subscribe to this strategy are weak and should be silenced with truth.

All these rediculous laws to strip us of our rights are created by ignorant people that should be pushed back and not implemented further by other ignorant people. In otherwords, don't become a supertool in order to protect yourself against supertools.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

[ke6guj]

Since you do not 'submit to masters' and are sure of the legality of your product here's a challenge for you, it comes in two parts.

A) Take and post to youtube a video of yourself IN CALIFORNIA using a magnetic release tool on an AR pattern rifle WITH listed features, a pistol grip, flash hider and forward pistol grip.

B) Demonstrate your product at gun shows with the same rifle with all the same features.

If it is indeed legal you should have no problem doing these two things.
If you do not do these two things you are admitting that the product is NOT legal.

It's that simple.

and make sure that it has a semi-automatic centerfire upper on it as well, not a rimfire upper.

I seem to recall a vendor using a S&W M&P15-22 at a show once, but people were commenting that as a rimfire it was exempt from the feature ban so it didn't matter if the magnet was a tool or not. At the next show it was a normal S&W M&P15 but I don't know if the upper was a centerfire upper or not since the dust cover is always closed.

[-hanko]

I personally don't submit to "masters" myself and prefer information (facts) over other people's conjecture. Can you please explain why they are not legal? Since you're an expert on the issue of course...

Too many times in this industry I've experienced other people creating their own firearms laws and regulations that don't exist in order to be "safe" from the law man.

This "safety" that supposed guns lovers are promoting is usually not based on reality or law and is only serving to assist the anti-firearm agenda. Those that subscribe to this strategy are weak and should be silenced with truth.

All these rediculous laws to strip us of our rights are created by ignorant people that should be pushed back and not implemented further by other ignorant people. In otherwords, don't become a supertool in order to protect yourself against supertools.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Google broken? Try the link below (you click the blue letters).

Too ignorant to search...

"They who can give up basic intelligence to obtain what they think are large cojones, deserve neither intelligence nor large cojones".

[naeco81]

Utterly owned by Kestryll. 10/10 would read again.

[SouperMan]

So I'm curious, since you either work for or own Supertool (an '@supertoolusa.com email address kinda gives it away) why did you not make that clear in your posting?

...

Nice. Kestryll FTW!

[GREENONE1]

This a guy who got banned before and is under a different account. Im gonna report it and see what happens.

Banned?? I have never been banned.

[Kestryll]

Banned?? I have never been banned.

No, to the best of my knowledge you have never been banned here.

You have however been disingenuous in your identity and connection to this product.

So, no comment on my challenge?

[viper37]

The difference is one is attached to the rifle and one is not. If you stick a bullet tip in a BB and cant the rifle sideways it will fall out. Do the same with a magnetic or friction based "tool" and it does not. I absolutely will not stop using emphasis to warn shooters about the risks - they are intended to be annoyingly large.

Lets see some case law to back up any of what you just said.

My challenge stands as well.

[GREENONE1]

So I'm curious, since you either work for or own Supertool (an '@supertoolusa.com email address kinda gives it away) why did you not make that clear in your posting?

As for the legality. an item or part that affixes or attaches to the weapon becomes a part of the weapon. When a magnetic button is attached to the weapon the magazine can be released without the aid of a tool.
A rifle with listed features that can release the magazine without disassembly or use of a tool is an illegal 'assault weapon' under the law.

Since you do not 'submit to masters' and are sure of the legality of your product here's a challenge for you, it comes in two parts.

A) Take and post to youtube a video of yourself IN CALIFORNIA using a magnetic release tool on an AR pattern rifle WITH listed features, a pistol grip, flash hider and forward pistol grip.

B) Demonstrate your product at gun shows with the same rifle with all the same features.

If it is indeed legal you should have no problem doing these two things.
If you do not do these two things you are admitting that the product is NOT legal.

It's simple. I was interested in starting a lively debate with you all. Instead I've recieved the same backlash as most liberal sites produce when gun control is debated. Bravo to you all if you are actually gun owners. Additionally, nowhere did I ever claim that I did not work for any of these companies. Yes it's pretty obvious.

We have met with the ATF, DOJ, local CLOs and various legal representatives regarding the legality of this product and not only is it legal but you can use it on a centerfire rifle with features as a tool.

Back in 2009 when calguns first posted regarding this product, it was unclear how to use and if the product was legal. There has since been legal precedence to secure the legality of the product. YES, the bill not passing DOES set a legal precedence.

In order to be compliant, leaving the tool on the firearm at all times is not recommended unless in situations which are detailed on all the sites. I'm sure some of you are going to blast this but let me ask you a question...Can you leave ammo in the rifle at all times? We have not only sold hundreds of units to law enforcement but also to Calguns employees at gun shows.

So all of you that are against us and think this is illegal, I again challenge you to present facts on a product of this type. And I do know the difference between opinion and fact and the fact is that this product is legal and that's why we are all in business and not in jail. Mag Magnet has posted a video with a rifle that lives online and we are in the process of doing the same.

As for demoing the product at gun shows on featureless rifles...let me ask you something, have you ever seen a rifle scope on a featureless rifle? Have you ever seen a fake handgun in a holster? Does this mean that these products are illegal as well? The simple fact is that we don't use them because...A. we don't want employees to be responsible for our own serialize firearms and B. the constant use and handling of a firearm degrades it. If we manufactured firearms then yes, we would demo on a featured rifle.

I'm just curious...do any of you that are blasting me own rifles with bullet buttons? The only flack we receive from people at gun shows, gun stores or ranges are from those that don't like sporting rifles in the first place. Just curious.