transporting weapons through internal checkpoints

[250rah]

I have been thru the one east of glamis on the way to Blythe first 2 times was easy the third the BP asks if I am a resident and I say yes (keep in mind I have a naval base decal on my car and I am white as can be) he asks where I am going I say Arizona he asks where I tell him and he says why(at this point I am irritated) and I reply why? he says what buisiness do you have htere I told himit was personal and not of his concern suprisingly he let me go.
Here is my favorite
The 4th time I pull up he says untied states border patrol and I say United states navy he laughs and waves me thru ..
Some of them are just head strong.
Good luck with your claim

[CSACANNONEER]

I was a member of these forums long before I became an officer, so I do understand where your comming from. But no one said you had to be a slave to authority to be compliant. You could have simply answer the question and that would have been it.

If you mean that I was assuming your were being disrespectful to the BP, your wrong. I made my reply based simply on what you had stated in the OP. Primary is not meant for a forever interview. If you cannot obtain what you are looking for in primary quickly, well, thats where secondary comes in.

Whenever ANYONE asks to speak to a supervisor at the port, we MUST allow that person to speak with him or her. As someone who crosses that checkpoint all the time as well, I hope you get the answers your looking for.

Edit: on a side note. When I used to go out shooting in Jacumba or out in the valley and had to cross the checkpoint, did I or do I like being stopped on the way home and questioned by BP - HECK NO. But again I simply answer their one or two questions and all is done

I understand where you are coming from and that when John Q. Public answers agent's questions, it makes life easier for all involved. BUT, why should anyone here legally be forced to answer personal questions? Is there really any reason a citizen or legal visitor to this country should be subjected to this type of random questioning and searches? Can you please point out why someone not answering a BP agent's questions should lead to a violation of their constitutional rights? If these random detainments and searches US citiens who simply don't care to share their personal information with strangers wearing badges are constitutionally legal, please explain why they are legal. I fully understand and agree with being questioned and/or searched upon crossing our borders but, I don't understand it when these check points are miles from the border.

[dieselpower]

I am reading these and I am just too ****ing pissed to get past the 4th page.

"Are there any weapons in the car?"
"That's none of your business."
"We need to inspect your car."
"Fine, I want to see your supervisor immediately afterward."

The line is clear, but because YOU people give up your freedom so easily, it is NOW expected that we all give them up, or face the consequences of harassment.

To you who say, "Oh yessa masta, I do have firearms in my car"...you are sheople.

To you who are in uniform and hand out crap when someone challenges your authority to REMOVE their freedom...you are a dictator and a traitor to this country..PERIOD.

To the OP, you did the right thing. Do not let the wannabe Nazis in uniform change you into a "good little slave". That is exactly what they do, little by little since its just easier to comply then to fight...its just easier and they make your life harder...that's why FREEDOM is the hard road. Little by little the Nazis will chip it away. In fifty years, people will think nothing of allowing LEO to randomly search their homes, for safety.....whats the matter...you got something to hide???

Maybe I am just too freaking old and wish for the good ole-days when we were free men.

[Jpach]

Maybe I am just too freaking old and wish for the good ole-days when we were free men.

You arent too freaking old. Im 20 and Im pissed off as well. This type of crap gets me genuinely fired up. What can we do? Nobody, at least in large enough quantities, is willing to do anything to get our rights back. I think its so sad how damn near everyone has the "who cares if they search, do you have something to hide?" attitude. Everyone is so ignorant. Im still very ignorant but atleast I can see how disgusting things have become in general and I can see where things area headed.

What can we do?

[Big D]

Yeah you guys are right! I mean what are those BP guys doing on the highway anyway? They should be down there on the border. I mean we all know that those illegal aliens cross the border and then just WALK hundreds of miles north or east or west. It would never occur to them to get in a car and DRIVE to where they want to go right?
And what are they doing asking about weapons? It's not like they frequently get shot at in their line of work. They should just be required to ignore anything that might pose a hazard to their lives.
They should get rid of those checkpoints. Hey, while we are at it who wants to volunteer to be the first one to let a previously deported child molester move in next door? Anyone?

[Cokebottle]

Yeah you guys are right! I mean what are those BP guys doing on the highway anyway? They should be down there on the border. I mean we all know that those illegal aliens cross the border and then just WALK hundreds of miles north or east or west. It would never occur to them to get in a car and DRIVE to where they want to go right?
And what are they doing asking about weapons? It's not like they frequently get shot at in their line of work. They should just be required to ignore anything that might pose a hazard to their lives.
They should get rid of those checkpoints. Hey, while we are at it who wants to volunteer to be the first one to let a previously deported child molester move in next door? Anyone?

They can ask and inspect all they want to, but it needs to be within the limits of the US Constitution.

There are plenty of sheep who are willing to voluntarily give up their Constitutional rights in the name of security. Those of us who are not should not be punished by being illegally detained and searched.


And as I said before... the questions are pointless.
How many illegals, drug smugglers, and gun runners are going to answer the questions honestly? Zero.

And they are not going to be the person who asserts his Constitutional rights, because for one, he probably isn't aware of them. He's going to most likely be polite, and indicate that he is a US citizen, and say that he does not have guns, drugs, or illegals in his vehicle.

If they have reasonable suspicion or probable cause? Perfectly fine... tear the vehicle apart. If my SUV having tinted windows in the back gives them RS that I might be carrying contraband, then fine. They can and will do what the law says they can do.
But if I pull up in a completely empty SUV with no tinted windows and no indication that the suspension appears to be compressed, then they have no reasonable suspicion or probable cause to ask or do anything unless I open my mouth and give them a reason to search me.

"Where are you coming from?"
"Ensenada"
"Bring back any fireworks?"
"Uhh...(not expecting the question) No sir"

Bingo... the pause and "uhh" is now going to be used as reasonable suspicion.

[tenpercentfirearms]

Police can ask you any questions they want. They have freedom of speech too. So if they want to ask you if you have weapons in the vehicle, that is their right. It should also be your right not to answer. It is also your right to question them.

I am having a hard time fully understanding what Nefarious is saying when he says they have a right to take you out and cuff you for non compliance. So make it clear to me.

Are we talking about an internal checkpoint like the one on the 8 east of SD? Or are we talking about the border crossing at TJ? Are we talking about the initial stop (I am assuming primary) or the "pull over" (is that secondary?)?

Man I am glad I don't live by the border. Then again, maybe if I did live by the border, it would be my job to stand up for our rights and help fight this thing.

[GrizzlyGuy]

I'm sorry to hear about your situation, but am glad to hear you are fighting back. The checkpoint is constitutional as ruled by SCOTUS in United States v. Martinez-Fuerte. Trojan Bayonet summarized the case in his post here.

However, you are not required to answer any of their questions, including their question regarding citizenship. See this video for an example of how you can (and should) be the one in charge and asking the questions:

http://www.youtube.com/user/CheckpointUSA#p/a/7BC956C2E15751BE/1/u6uw7506xMw

There are many more on his YouTube channel and more info is on his site here:

https://www.checkpointusa.org/

I know that many people recommend making this statement when stopped at a checkpoint or by a LEO: 'there is nothing illegal in my vehicle'. I disagree with that recommendation, because there may in fact be something illegal in your vehicle that you are unaware of.

There are so many laws today that it is virtually impossible for the average citizen to know them all: federal, state, county, municipality, DHS regulations, etc. And, your wife/son/friend/parking attendant/car wash dude/anonymous prankster/hitchhiker/etc. may have inadvertantly left something illegal in your car. If you somehow get searched and that is found, your statement will now be used against you.

If you don't feel comfortable proceeding like the activist in the videos, then I'd recommend this statement: "Hi officer, I know you're just doing your job and I respect that. But I don't wish to answer any of your questions, and I hope that you'll respect that as well." You've now setup what should be an easy, mutually respectful encounter. If they don't show you respect in return, then continue to answer NO questions and continue to assert your rights and fire back your own questions.

FYI, I did some research into the legality of agricultural checkpoints and summarized what I found here.

Good luck and keep up the good fight!

[Cokebottle]

In looking back, Nefarious works Calexico, so he is working an actual border crossing (if not patrolling the area just inside the border, bit speaking of "primary" and "secondary" would describe the actual border checkpoint).

However, a Calgunner who was recently detained and had his OLL seized was returning home from a range somewhere east of SD, so he was not detained at an actual crossing, but rather at a checkpoint or by a BP officer on patrol (he did not give any details beyond that).

[popeye4]

I am reading these and I am just too ****ing pissed to get past the 4th page.

"Are there any weapons in the car?"
"That's none of your business."
"We need to inspect your car."
"Fine, I want to see your supervisor immediately afterward."

The line is clear, but because YOU people give up your freedom so easily, it is NOW expected that we all give them up, or face the consequences of harassment.

To you who say, "Oh yessa masta, I do have firearms in my car"...you are sheople.

To you who are in uniform and hand out crap when someone challenges your authority to REMOVE their freedom...you are a dictator and a traitor to this country..PERIOD.

To the OP, you did the right thing. Do not let the wannabe Nazis in uniform change you into a "good little slave". That is exactly what they do, little by little since its just easier to comply then to fight...its just easier and they make your life harder...that's why FREEDOM is the hard road. Little by little the Nazis will chip it away. In fifty years, people will think nothing of allowing LEO to randomly search their homes, for safety.....whats the matter...you got something to hide???

Maybe I am just too freaking old and wish for the good ole-days when we were free men.

This says it all. The "good" advice in this thread seems to be oriented to how to get along in a police state and not cause an officer any discomfort, mainly so he doesn't exercise is "authority" to be a pain in the a**. Perhaps they can get away with this sort of behavior because questioning authority is aberrant behavior. Perhaps if EVERYONE told them to pound sand, they'd become overwhelmed by their own bovine excrement.

Won't happen, though. Most people will roll over so they won't be late to the mall.....

Does anyone get the feeling that this sort of stuff is conditioning us (LEO's and citizens alike) for bigger and better things? Nah, just the natural evolution of an unchecked bureaucracy.....

[cgseanp1]

Not to get too off topic here, but I will be crossing through a few BP checkpoints today on my way home from AZ. On the way here, I was asked to go to Secondary and then asked to get myself and my baby son out of the car so they could have the dog go through.. I'm pretty sure they didn't have any RS (reasonable suspicion?) or PC (probable cause?).. I'm without a doubt a US Citizen, and I answered them when they asked me. I also told them I was heading to Tucson to visit family, and I was coming from San Diego.. Then they had me pull to secondary, dog went through and I was on my way in a few minutes.. I have a rental car, supposedly people are using rentals to smuggle nowadays.. Is that RS or PC to detain somebody?
If they hassle me again today, I won't answer any questions.

[Dangerpin]

Man I am glad I don't live by the border. Then again, maybe if I did live by the border, it would be my job to stand up for our rights and help fight this thing.

If you live within 100 miles of a land border or an ocean you are within the zone that the border patrol can set up these checkpoints. I believe Taft, CA falls is less than 100 miles from the ocean so get ready to stand up.

[GrizzlyGuy]

I have a rental car, supposedly people are using rentals to smuggle nowadays.. Is that RS or PC to detain somebody?

Absolutely not. Driving a rented care is legal. Engaging in lawful activities like driving a rental car never meets the RAS standard for detainment. Although LEOs may act as if it does.

If they hassle me again today, I won't answer any questions.

Good for you. See the video I linked to in my post above for some inspiration.

[MasterYong]

There's internal checkpoints going into AZ?

I didn't see any a few weeks ago.

If I pass through one on the way back they're not searching my vehicle. Period. There will be no RS or PC of any kind because I am a law abiding citizen. If they insist on searching my vehicle it'll only be after I've been detained/arrested/whatever for resisting. I wont lay down just because I'm afraid of the law. I have recording equipment and it'll be running, and when they finally let me go I'll be contacting my attorney.

Surely that wont happen though. Are there really so many people that get searched for no reason at these checkpoints???

[cgseanp1]

There's internal checkpoints going into AZ?

I didn't see any a few weeks ago.

If I pass through one on the way back they're not searching my vehicle. Period. There will be no RS or PC of any kind because I am a law abiding citizen. If they insist on searching my vehicle it'll only be after I've been arrested for resisting. I wont lay down just because I'm afraid of the law. I have recording equipment and it'll be running, and when they finally let me go I'll be contacting my attorney.

Surely that wont happen though. Are there really so many people that get searched for no reason at these checkpoints???

There are plenty of checkpoints coming from San Diego into AZ. Not sure about the route you are taking. And I have passed through these things many times, only been searched once, and that was just a few days ago.