transporting weapons through internal checkpoints

[Bucky G]

I went through a BP checkpoint in Imperial County about 10 years ago. The officer asked if I had anything illegal in my van and I replied " No sir, just my atv and my rifle." and he said "have a nice day" and waved me through. A good attitude goes a long way in an LEO encounter.

that's the one I go through everyday

and normally they are cool as hell, as am I
even though they rotate shifts, most of them have seen me... I mean I'm through their the same time everyday

I've even offered em a pizza... they wouldn't take it

[Bucky G]

Who would you file a complaint with? I wouldn't want to file the complaint with the department or agency that did it.. could you file one with the FBI if needed?

I'm going to go directly to them
I have some friends in authority there, one is in a captain and in charge of another border crossing and another is retired from them and now is a contractor doing background investigations for them... he told me a lot of interesting information
he said that those internal checkpoint lines you wait in are not supposed to be more than seven minutes long.
He gave me the chief's number to call and complain when the line is too long. I've called it a number of times, but he's NEVER in his office

[Nefarious]

I read through these posts rather quicly, im going to go back and read them a little closer... but

I cross that checkpoint all the time as well - going home on my "weekends".

As far as the damages to your car go. Did you notice them before or after you left (again ill go back and read the OP a little more closer). If you noticed them AFTER you left, your going to have a hard time proving that it was infact the K9 that did the damage. You can ALWAYS speak to a supervsor if you have a complaint. They should allow you to file a tort claim and at that point it gets routed up the chain. But again, if you did not show them the damage right then and there, its going to be iffy.

BP opperates under somewhat different guidlines than CBP - We dont have to ask permission to search your vehicle . I consider myself extreemly polite with the traveling public, but when I run into "that guy" ... well, his inspection takes a little longer lol
In secondary - for us - the comment you made to the officer could be considered non-compliance, at which point (to keep it short) we could escort you out of the vehicle, handcuff you, take you into the office for pattdown, and detain you untill our inspection is complete. I do believe your response at the checkpoint was considered non-compliance and the BP escalated per guidlines from there.

[-hanko]

It seems like to me that that officer may or may not have perceived an attitude issue with you, but, in the least, perhaps what you said simply caused him to say to himself "Oh great, another 'Is it any of your business?' attitude-pusher" and sent you off to be searched instead of just being lax on you. I suggest you take a look at this thread for figuring out some ways to avoid being unnecessarily and blood boilingly searched.

This.

Your mouth did you in.

A 'yes' answer would have sent you on your way with no scratches on the door.

-hanko

[Jpach]

BP opperates under somewhat different guidlines than CBP - We dont have to ask permission to search your vehicle . I consider myself extreemly polite with the traveling public, but when I run into "that guy" ... well, his inspection takes a little longer lol
In secondary - for us - the comment you made to the officer could be considered non-compliance, at which point (to keep it short) we could escort you out of the vehicle, handcuff you, take you into the office for pattdown, and detain you untill our inspection is complete. I do believe your response at the checkpoint was considered non-compliance and the BP escalated per guidlines from there.

I am in no way trying to be a jerk or disrespectful here, but how is it that asking someone if it is their business can land you in handcuffs while your vehicle is being searched without consent? That seems pretty sick to me.

If telling an LEO that you have "nothing illegal" in your car when asked if there are any weapons in the car isnt PC to search, then how on earth can the OPs situation happen?

OP, I hope you get those scratches taken care of and that this sort of thing never happens again.

[ddimick]

Sometimes it's not what you say, it's how you say it. You may have gotten a different response if you had asked "Am I legally required to answer your question?".

Then again, you may not have.

[reidnez]

"I have nothing illegal in my vehicle and do not consent to a search, but I will not resist you in any way." These are the magic words when dealing with LEO...it is not rude or confrontational, and it doesn't leave anything vague which could be construed as consent to a search. If he's going to search your vehicle anyway based on probable cause, so be it, but at least he knows that he may have to back it up in court later.

It's funny, I didn't even realize there were internal checkpoints, and I used to live about 8 miles from the border. I guess I just haven't run into one yet.

[Linh]

I read through these posts rather quicly, im going to go back and read them a little closer... but

I cross that checkpoint all the time as well - going home on my "weekends".

As far as the damages to your car go. Did you notice them before or after you left (again ill go back and read the OP a little more closer). If you noticed them AFTER you left, your going to have a hard time proving that it was infact the K9 that did the damage. You can ALWAYS speak to a supervsor if you have a complaint. They should allow you to file a tort claim and at that point it gets routed up the chain. But again, if you did not show them the damage right then and there, its going to be iffy.

BP opperates under somewhat different guidlines than CBP - We dont have to ask permission to search your vehicle . I consider myself extreemly polite with the traveling public, but when I run into "that guy" ... well, his inspection takes a little longer lol
In secondary - for us - the comment you made to the officer could be considered non-compliance, at which point (to keep it short) we could escort you out of the vehicle, handcuff you, take you into the office for pattdown, and detain you untill our inspection is complete. I do believe your response at the checkpoint was considered non-compliance and the BP escalated per guidlines from there.

+1

I personally have driven through lots of these checkpoints mostly through the one of the 8.

I have NEVER been asked anything. They just nod and let me go. Of course if they ever did anything that was illegal then I would let their chain of command know.

So if you feel that things should be different then take it with DC. No one is going to change anything by getting into a shouting match with any BPA or CBP officer.

[AR-1904]

I go through one on the way home from the gun range(South Bay Rod and Gun Club). Until last week they have never spoken to me, just waved me through. Last week my brother and I went out to test fire my newly put together Yugo M70. On the way home the Border Patrol officer asked me:

BP: Where are you coming from?
Me: The gun range
BP: (looks in the back seat, sees nothing) What kind of guns are you shooting?
Me: Legal ones.
BP: Legal ones?
Me: Yes sir.
BP: Have a nice day.


I kinda froze when he asked the question, but I didn't want to say AK47. I could have said Zatava M70b1 but I wasn't thinking that fast. He just kind of smiled and I drove away.

[gimebakmybulits]

I read through these posts rather quicly, im going to go back and read them a little closer... but

I cross that checkpoint all the time as well - going home on my "weekends".

As far as the damages to your car go. Did you notice them before or after you left (again ill go back and read the OP a little more closer). If you noticed them AFTER you left, your going to have a hard time proving that it was infact the K9 that did the damage. You can ALWAYS speak to a supervsor if you have a complaint. They should allow you to file a tort claim and at that point it gets routed up the chain. But again, if you did not show them the damage right then and there, its going to be iffy.

BP opperates under somewhat different guidlines than CBP - We dont have to ask permission to search your vehicle . I consider myself extreemly polite with the traveling public, but when I run into "that guy" ... well, his inspection takes a little longer lol
In secondary - for us - the comment you made to the officer could be considered non-compliance, at which point (to keep it short) we could escort you out of the vehicle, handcuff you, take you into the office for pattdown, and detain you untill our inspection is complete. I do believe your response at the checkpoint was considered non-compliance and the BP escalated per guidlines from there.

Nice, glad we are safe from "that guy"

[Bucky G]

I read through these posts rather quicly, im going to go back and read them a little closer... but

I cross that checkpoint all the time as well - going home on my "weekends".

As far as the damages to your car go. Did you notice them before or after you left (again ill go back and read the OP a little more closer). If you noticed them AFTER you left, your going to have a hard time proving that it was infact the K9 that did the damage. You can ALWAYS speak to a supervsor if you have a complaint. They should allow you to file a tort claim and at that point it gets routed up the chain. But again, if you did not show them the damage right then and there, its going to be iffy.

BP opperates under somewhat different guidlines than CBP - We dont have to ask permission to search your vehicle . I consider myself extreemly polite with the traveling public, but when I run into "that guy" ... well, his inspection takes a little longer lol
In secondary - for us - the comment you made to the officer could be considered non-compliance, at which point (to keep it short) we could escort you out of the vehicle, handcuff you, take you into the office for pattdown, and detain you untill our inspection is complete. I do believe your response at the checkpoint was considered non-compliance and the BP escalated per guidlines from there.

when did the border patrol get the carte blanche authority to act in vilolation of my constitutional civil rights?
I'm trying to recall when california turned into a police state

what's the diference between BP (border patrol) and CBP (US Customs and Border Protection)?

and for the record, I didn't even have weapon with me, it just seemed odd that he felt the need to ask me
I just wanted to know if he had the authority to do so

[Nefarious]

I am in no way trying to be a jerk or disrespectful here, but how is it that asking someone if it is their business can land you in handcuffs while your vehicle is being searched without consent? That seems pretty sick to me.

If telling an LEO that you have "nothing illegal" in your car when asked if there are any weapons in the car isnt PC to search, then how on earth can the OPs situation happen?

OP, I hope you get those scratches taken care of and that this sort of thing never happens again.

Im not taking it like your being a jerk or disrespectful, but I think you missed a key point in my post. The op did not say "nothing illegal" he basically said what business it is of his (the BP). Thats "non-compliance" with a passenger

If im in secondary and I asked a passenger a simple question, and they answer with "what business is that of yours", thats flat out non-compliance. Personally I would ask again (I do understand that people get frustrated and annoyed), but even so we do not need any permission to search a vehicle. Again this is at the border not a checkpoint. There are some things I obviously cannot go into, but, BP operate along most of the same guidelines. When the OP make his statement, that right there gave them what they needed to refer him to secondary and continue with a 7pt/k9 inspection of the vehicle.

I too hope the op can get the damage to his vehicle fixed. Its not like im trying to be the bad guy here and say the OP was wrong and thats what he deserves. Just trying to shed some light on the situation from the other side.

[Bucky G]

BP opperates under somewhat different guidlines than CBP - We dont have to ask permission to search your vehicle . I consider myself extreemly polite with the traveling public, but when I run into "that guy" ... well, his inspection takes a little longer lol

with all due respect and fellow calguns members camaraderie
what you said there, is everything that is wrong with government authority today to me

you can't tell my tone because I'm typing on a computer, but I was completely respectful to the officer
but being an Border Patrol officer your mindset automatically assumed I was being disrespectful... and there's my problem with it

as far as compliance, I'm not a slave to authority and will not bow down like a dog... my pride will not allow me to do that

there is a huge discussion going on about the legality of internal checkpoints and the 100-mile "Constitution-free" zone established by Customs and Border Patrol

I'm going in tomorrow to talk to the captain tomorrow on Aten Road, based on what you said here, I have a lot of questions that need answering

cheers

[Nefarious]

with all due respect and fellow calguns members camaraderie
what you said there, is everything that is wrong with government authority today to me

you can't tell my tone because I'm typing on a computer, but I was completely respectful to the officer
but being an Border Patrol officer your mindset automatically assumed I was being disrespectful... and there's my problem with it

as far as compliance, I'm not a slave to authority and will not bow down like a dog... my pride will not allow me to do that

there is a huge discussion going on about the legality of internal checkpoints and the 100-mile "Constitution-free" zone established by Customs and Border Patrol

I'm going in tomorrow to talk to the captain tomorrow on Aten Road, based on what you said here, I have a lot of questions that need answering

cheers

I was a member of these forums long before I became an officer, so I do understand where your comming from. But no one said you had to be a slave to authority to be compliant. You could have simply answer the question and that would have been it.

If you mean that I was assuming your were being disrespectful to the BP, your wrong. I made my reply based simply on what you had stated in the OP. Primary is not meant for a forever interview. If you cannot obtain what you are looking for in primary quickly, well, thats where secondary comes in.

Whenever ANYONE asks to speak to a supervisor at the port, we MUST allow that person to speak with him or her. As someone who crosses that checkpoint all the time as well, I hope you get the answers your looking for.

Edit: on a side note. When I used to go out shooting in Jacumba or out in the valley and had to cross the checkpoint, did I or do I like being stopped on the way home and questioned by BP - HECK NO. But again I simply answer their one or two questions and all is done

[Bucky G]

I was a member of these forums long before I became an officer, so I do understand where your comming from. But no one said you had to be a slave to authority to be compliant. You could have simply answer the question and that would have been it.

If you mean that I was assuming your were being disrespectful to the BP, your wrong. I made my reply based simply on what you had stated in the OP. Primary is not meant for a forever interview. If you cannot obtain what you are looking for in primary quickly, well, thats where secondary comes in.

Whenever ANYONE asks to speak to a supervisor at the port, we MUST allow that person to speak with him or her. As someone who crosses that checkpoint all the time as well, I hope you get the answers your looking for.

thanks man
do you work at calexico?