transporting weapons through internal checkpoints

[Bucky G]

I dont know if it was overlooked - it seems it has been - but I am NOT BP. I do NOT work at the BP checkpoint(s), I do NOT wear a green uniform, I do NOT drive around in a white and green vehicle and I do NOT stop people at checkpoints located WITHIN the United States.

I am CBP, as in Customs and Border Protection. Im the guy in the Blue uniform, driving the blue and white vehicle, stopping people comming from OUTSIDE the United States seeking admission INTO the United States. BP and CPB - along with others - are all part of DHS.

I know what I can and cannot do here at the ACTUAL border.

I was not trying to turn this thread into an argument over this or that. I now know better than to try and shed some light on situations like these

To the OP: Actually, I work both the East and the West. I enjoy the West POE more, simply because there is WAAYYYYYy more action over there . But, cant wait to come back home. Did you eventually get the answers you were looking for?

lol, yup lots more action at the west port
A knucklehead buddy of mine tried to run through that place with a carload of cocaine
you might remember that
he wasn't a drug dealer or anything, in fact we were all shocked when we heard about it, he was in desperate need of money and made the stupidest move in his life
he was calexico pd and he figured they would just wave him through, he wasn't counting on dogs being there... anyway do the crime and pay for it big time
that whole area is a real ****hole
my buddy that works the POE grew up there and now he's moved to vegas and actually commutes back and forth

oh and about the original post, they gave me the number to the Indio office and I called
They won't do anything over the phone, I have to drive all the way to Indio and let them inspect it and blah blah blah
be cheaper to let it go
haven't decided yet

[Glock-matic]

When they ask if you if you have weapons, tell them that talking about weapons makes you uncomfortable. Don't lie, just misdirect. If they keep pushing, say I feel uncomfortable, can I leave?

[Nick5811]

This is probably the most intelligent post I've read in this thread!

You should complain immediately as his first question to you should have been one dealing with immigration or customs as that is the purview of a CBP Border Patrol checkpoint. Border Patrol can, and will, enforce other federal laws if there is a nexus with immigration or customs violation. They will also be able to summon local law enforcement for violations encountered during their immigration and customs determination. Whether or not you think it is a violation of your rights to be stopped there is another issue all together.

After the officer determines there is no violation of federal immigration or customs laws, the officer can ask you anything as it would be engaging in a casual conversation. Most CBP Border Patrol Agents do not know s&!^ from shinola when it comes to firearms laws, federal or state. It would be wise for you to know your rights so that you can spit them out to the officer if you are given any guff.

They may send you to secondary, but they may search your vehicle only if the officer has mere suspicion of an immigration or customs violation. This is a very low burden and has been upheld by the courts. See, its all in why the officer sent you to the secondary inspection. If he sent you there because you answered his question pertaining to firearms as, "yes, I have firearms in my vehicle," and they searched your vehicle based on that, they have performed a "bad search" or an illegal search and seizure upon you and your property. If they sent you for secondary inspection and can articulate mere suspicion of an immigration or customs violation (not very difficult by the way), and they encounter a firearm that is being transported in violation of some state/local or federal law, they may take action upon it by calling local authorities in case of a state/local violation. Make sure you know the local laws governing the transport of your firearms as most Border Patrol Agents will not know this. Law enforcement, unfortunately, gets to fudge the words of the constitution, not purposefully, but because we citizens don't know our rights and think that Law Enforcement on any level, federal/state/local, does.

BTW, I am not a lawyer, I am just a concerned citizen that is quite informed of my rights and I just wanted to throw my .02 into the bucket.

The rest of you are just spitting out ignorant dribble, claiming fourth and fifth amendment privilege which actually only applies in limited circumstances. You're getting each other all riled up based on your various interpretations of portions of the constitution, CFR and USC that you happen to find on google. There is SO much case law and executive privilege that also applies to these cases that unless you worked there you wouldn't understand how it all fits together and it can be applied actually in the field at the checkpoint.

Before you sit here and spout ignorant conservative diatribe as the gospel truth, do some in-depth research! While I don't agree with that one cop saying he'd "check the prick" that gives him attitude, THEY ALL feel that way, and MOST departments will back that up with policy and training. It'll be articulated in their report and by the time you have your civil court hearing (months or years later) his reasonable suspicion and/or probable cause will be officially documented and presented as a nearly air-tight account of events compared to your laymen's recollection.

To the OP, if you don't act like a dick, you won't be treated like one. NOBODY is a bigger dick than a guy with a uniform, gun and badge who can deny your freedom of movement and f*** up your life. Sure, you MIGHT win a civil suit down the road, but much like the guy with the OLL's by LAX, you still go to jail NOW, pay bail NOW, and deal with the court system NOW. It's not worth the hassle you'll run into just to 'stand up to the man' who is only doing the job he was TRAINED to do. The Basic Academy for BP is like 22 weeks of intense Constitutional LAW training as well as immigration law and firearms/defensive tactics training. They know more about the law then you could ever hope to know, including laws you very likely don't even know exist.

RE: the Nasty Girls (nat'l guard) at the x-ray machine deleting the picture from the phone; Since 9/11 many things have changed, and photographing critical infrastructure is a very touchy subject. I'm not aware of any case law yet, but I am aware of MANY cases where people have been denied their freedom of movement and had their equipment seized as evidence after taking pictures of or on federal installations/enclaves or within their jurisdiction. Federal law enforcement is very different from municipal law enforcement, and the 'rights' you have as a citizen vary from Federal installation to State or municipal jurisdictions. For example, carrying a pocket knife with blade length longer than 3.5" can be a Federal Felony if you do it in the wrong place.

Bottom line, stop spewing BS to everyone and disguising it as fact. It does nobody any good, and will only get someone hurt.

[odysseus]

Have we learned anything from this thread?

- Being stopped as a citizen inside the border on a normal freeway for border and customs control is lawful and you should accept it as so. You in all probably will be briefly questioned.

- They can ask you all kinds of questions about where you are going, why, and if you have weapons. You are required to answer them.

- Don't be a dick, the officers have authority and don't like it and will hassle you for questioning them, so shut up and do as you are told. Don't get upset that you are a citizen on a highway you paid for inside the US, and are routinely stopped inside the border and questioned about a lot more than if you are lawfully inside the border. Some here in the thread claiming to be officers/agents in these operations say doing this will nearly always get you to secondary inspection as a form of pay back.

- Soon, if they want to do a secondary questioning because they didn't like what you say or how things look, they will x-ray your car for anything. Also anything seen suspicious outside of just BP/Customs issues can become PC for civil LE.

??? Sounds weird.

BTW - I haven't been by one of these in a while, but when I did I wasn't been inquired about weapons. However I don't doubt it, usually things slowly get more intrusive because of "middle management" until some kind of slap down happens.

[adrenalinemedic]

The rest of you are just spitting out ignorant dribble, claiming fourth and fifth amendment privilege which actually only applies in limited circumstances. You're getting each other all riled up based on your various interpretations of portions of the constitution, CFR and USC that you happen to find on google. There is SO much case law and executive privilege that also applies to these cases that unless you worked there you wouldn't understand how it all fits together and it can be applied actually in the field at the checkpoint.

Before you sit here and spout ignorant conservative diatribe as the gospel truth, do some in-depth research! While I don't agree with that one cop saying he'd "check the prick" that gives him attitude, THEY ALL feel that way, and MOST departments will back that up with policy and training. It'll be articulated in their report and by the time you have your civil court hearing (months or years later) his reasonable suspicion and/or probable cause will be officially documented and presented as a nearly air-tight account of events compared to your laymen's recollection.

To the OP, if you don't act like a dick, you won't be treated like one. NOBODY is a bigger dick than a guy with a uniform, gun and badge who can deny your freedom of movement and f*** up your life. Sure, you MIGHT win a civil suit down the road, but much like the guy with the OLL's by LAX, you still go to jail NOW, pay bail NOW, and deal with the court system NOW. It's not worth the hassle you'll run into just to 'stand up to the man' who is only doing the job he was TRAINED to do. The Basic Academy for BP is like 22 weeks of intense Constitutional LAW training as well as immigration law and firearms/defensive tactics training. They know more about the law then you could ever hope to know, including laws you very likely don't even know exist.

RE: the Nasty Girls (nat'l guard) at the x-ray machine deleting the picture from the phone; Since 9/11 many things have changed, and photographing critical infrastructure is a very touchy subject. I'm not aware of any case law yet, but I am aware of MANY cases where people have been denied their freedom of movement and had their equipment seized as evidence after taking pictures of or on federal installations/enclaves or within their jurisdiction. Federal law enforcement is very different from municipal law enforcement, and the 'rights' you have as a citizen vary from Federal installation to State or municipal jurisdictions. For example, carrying a pocket knife with blade length longer than 3.5" can be a Federal Felony if you do it in the wrong place.

Bottom line, stop spewing BS to everyone and disguising it as fact. It does nobody any good, and will only get someone hurt.

****ing. Thank. You.

Some of you 'experts' would do well to spend some time on the job before you start telling cops whats what. I also notice a lot of "Well I would do this" and "I would say that" instead of "I did this" and "I said that." I would bet good money that a majority of the tough guys nod, smile, and comply absolutely when they encounter law enforcement.

But whatever. I'm fire, my fiance is a cop, and you people keep us employed. We should probably thank you.

Oh, and to the guy questioning the credibility of a soldier solely on his wearing mechanix gloves, your ignorance is showing. Bad. If you've ever served overseas, you definitely haven't done so in the last decade. The days of "Delta wants to wear Oakley's, thats their business" are long gone.

[Cokebottle]

Geez... this thread WAS dead and buried since last November.

Just curious why regular members who question procedures in the LEO forum get threatened with being banned, but LEO who pull "Respect Mah Authoritay" in 2A and other forums get a pass.

Oh well....

[odysseus]

Some of you 'experts' would do well to spend some time on the job before you start telling cops whats what. I also notice a lot of "Well I would do this" and "I would say that" instead of "I did this" and "I said that." I would bet good money that a majority of the tough guys nod, smile, and comply absolutely when they encounter law enforcement.

I am not speaking for said experts, but what isn't good is to personalize into yourself a discussion like this. Especially on the internet. These discussions breakdown because on either "side" of the issue, someone becomes agitated taking something personally, and then makes wide aspersions about motive and such, setting off a rally back and forth.

Questioning authority and use of it in LE on its face is not an attack on LE itself, nor the officer personally. Yes, there are some on here that do due that and they themselves would be at fault for doing so.

Thus real conversation about the merits of something like this, use/abuse of power, Constitutional law, real life experience, repercussions, crime, money spent, social division, etc. kind of just get glossed over.

[thevic]

adding to the whole bein asked if you are carryin any weapons...

One night i was posted up at a "vista point" on an undeveloped lot looking over the bay area smoking a cigar. i park my car behind a hill because uually police come in and ask you what you are up to if the see it. a car full of kids park about 50 yards away from me out in plain sight. i already knew this was all bad. 10 minutes later hillsborough police pull into the lot and stop at the kids car and they begin to search it. im asuming the kids were smoke marijuana so the smell or what not gave the cops permission to search, whatever. an officer approaches my truck, asks what im up to and if i know the kids. i reply " no i was just enjoying a smoke and those idiots parked out in the open and ruined that". so the says " okay, do you have anything illegal or weapons?". i say " just an axe" ( im in the gardening business but i did not mention this). the officer laughs and says "hahaha axe body spray! allright get out of here before my supervisor shows up."...lol

another time i was pulled over because of a brake light out, Officer asks if i have any weapons (im assuming because of the HK sticker on my rear window. i look to my back seat and say "uhhh not at the moment".."have a good day sir" ahah

theres been other small incidents, but ive always found being polite and talk friendly with the officer is always a good outcome

[chiselchst]

Man, I am totally blown away from on this issue, clicking on MANY links going much deeper & deeper, with mucho time spent learning.

What an education this has been. I thank ALL of you, that had, and have had the courage to exercise their rights, and share your experience with the rest of us.

Great education, linking to many friends here.

Thanks!