338 Lapua??

[JMP]

That tells me you haven't.

FYI, the era of blowing the competition away is over.

LOL, that era of old. I think not. Check out the stuff engineered by EADS (now owned by Airbus). Their technology in scopes is constantly improving. The Krauts haven't been sitting on their butts for the last decade as others have improved. I am not saying it's really needed for the average Joe, but the modern technology is quite amazing. European engineering isn't going away any time soon.

[J-cat]

I'm talking about NF riflescopes vs German riflescopes. Riflescopes. The only thing Zeiss has on NF is the eyebox and magnification range. If you look through similar spec'd scopes, like 4-16 or 5-25, there isn't much difference in optical performance and none in build quality.

[LynnJr]

If you guys have the chance to go to a 1000 yard Benchrest Match in any caliber the first thing you will notice is 90% of the shooters are using Nightforce scopes and the guys with unlimited funds are using March scopes.

You wont find a single shooter using a 6k German scope but you might see the guy who had Deon Optics build the first batch of March scopes which cost him $250,000 out of his own pocket.

[JMP]

I'm talking about NF riflescopes vs German riflescopes. Riflescopes. The only thing Zeiss has on NF is the eyebox and magnification range. If you look through similar spec'd scopes, like 4-16 or 5-25, there isn't much difference in optical performance and none in build quality.

So, you are modifying your position of European optics by retarding the specs to the best from over a decade ago and saying the new NFs are on par. That's fair enough. NFs are very respectable scopes, but it's just silly to claim they are the best you can get. It may not be even practical for folks to get anything more, but more is to be had if you desire it, albeit it comes at a price.

[five.five-six]

What's your Price range?

My rule of thumb is $1/yard for glass.

If you are shooting 800 yards or less, get a .308.

[toby]

Get a Vortex from wee.cameraland.com
You absolutely do not need a $3000-$6000 scope.

[J-cat]

So, you are modifying your position of European optics by retarding the specs to the best from over a decade ago and saying the new NFs are on par. That's fair enough. NFs are very respectable scopes, but it's just silly to claim they are the best you can get. It may not be even practical for folks to get anything more, but more is to be had if you desire it, albeit it comes at a price.

I am not retreating from my position at all and never said that NF are the best. I challenged your assertion that NF quality is only outstanding when compared to Chinese crap.

When comparing scopes there are numerous variables and I'm not going to write a dissertation but build quality vs features has to be separated. You can't compare a $7500 3.5-26 Hensoldt to a $3200 BEAST. They are not like scopes. They are the latest greatest from each respective company, but that's where it ends.

Quality: materials, workmanship, reliability, durability, resolution, and contrast- basics that make an optic an optic.

Features: Field of View, eye relief, eyebox sensitivity, magnification range, elevation/windage adjustment range, illumination, exterior dimensions are all technology features and have nothing to do with QUALITY. That's like saying a Springfield Custom Shop 1911 is inferior to a HK45 because it is old technology.

You cannot and will never be able to convince anyone that NF quality is inferior to German glass. They are extremely robust, durable, repeatable and sharp. They have recently improved the coatings across the board, and now have the contrast they lacked before.

BTW, the newest offerings from Zeiss and S&B do not resolve any better, they do not have better contrast, or light transmission or anything along optical quality than their offerings from 10 years ago. The only difference is features: better magnification range, better adjustment range, locking turrets, etc. What makes them so much more expensive is the technology needed to make high quality zero compromise optic with those specific features. You can't just say you're going to make a 3-27x scope and make it. There are all sorts of design challenges and patents to get around. That's why this stuff costs money. So NF does not want to go there. So what? But their BEAST is just as good, if not better, than a S&B 5-25. For a Lapua, the BEAST is way better with 13 more mils of built in elevation and it does have lifetime warranty and is made here. That's very important if you are rough on your stuff.

[james758]

Eh-HEM.....
Back to your original question OP...
IF I WERE GETTING A 338.... THIS is the scope I would get:

http://www.eurooptic.com/schmidt-bender-pmii-5-25x56-l-p-h59-mrad-mtc-lt-ccw-ral8000-color.aspx

Along with this mount:

http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-tactical-20-moa-psr-scope-mount-qd

In fact I HAVE that mount and the 3-20x50mm version of that scope. I have it on a 308 with a Surgeon action (which also has a 20 MOA cant on the rail).
If ever I upgrade to the 338 (which I WOULD LOVE TO). I can easily switch over the scope.

If you REALLY want to make it special... Get the surgeon action:
http://www.surgeonrifles.com/1086 $1400
+ AICS chassis: $750

http://www.eurooptic.com/aics-338-lapua-cip-fixed-green.aspx

+ Bartlein barrel: $350-375

http://www.grizzly.com/search/search?q=338%20bartlein%20barrel

+ Jewell trigger ~$200
Send all the parts to THIS guy:
http://www.rwsgunsmithing.com/ and he can put it together for you and even have the whole thing melonite treated for about $525.
Total without shipping or DROS fees is $3250...ish.

[JMP]

For a Lapua, the BEAST is way better with 13 more mils of built in elevation and it does have lifetime warranty and is made here. That's very important if you are rough on your stuff.

I am not sure if you have used a BEAST, but I'd strongly caution folks to try one out before getting one. I was planning on getting one based on the previews. Perhaps my expectations were too high, but I don't think it lived up to the hype based on my opinion. I find the turret design to be overly complex and difficult to use, granted, you'd probably get used to it in time. The scope can adjust 36 Mils, but you will only achieve this with the right cant or it'll run out of room dialing up, so if you can set the zero stop and get the full 36 Mil, you are running at the extrema on both ends. Of course, 36 Mil is a lot of adjustment, and most folks using .338 Lapua would not need that much. You'd need to be shooting a really high BC bullet to extreme distances.

Eh-HEM.....
Back to your original question OP...
IF I WERE GETTING A 338.... THIS is the scope I would get:

http://www.eurooptic.com/schmidt-bender-pmii-5-25x56-l-p-h59-mrad-mtc-lt-ccw-ral8000-color.aspx

Along with this mount:

http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-tactical-20-moa-psr-scope-mount-qd

In fact I HAVE that mount and the 3-20x50mm version of that scope. I have it on a 308 with a Surgeon action (which also has a 20 MOA cant on the rail).
If ever I upgrade to the 338 (which I WOULD LOVE TO). I can easily switch over the scope.

If you REALLY want to make it special... Get the surgeon action:
http://www.surgeonrifles.com/1086 $1400
+ AICS chassis: $750

http://www.eurooptic.com/aics-338-lapua-cip-fixed-green.aspx

+ Bartlein barrel: $350-375

http://www.grizzly.com/search/search?q=338%20bartlein%20barrel

+ Jewell trigger ~$200
Send all the parts to THIS guy:
http://www.rwsgunsmithing.com/ and he can put it together for you and even have the whole thing melonite treated for about $525.
Total without shipping or DROS fees is $3250...ish.

That's a very solid pick. I'd make one suggestion though based on my personal preference. For a .338 Lapua, I think it's worth it to spend a couple hundred more and get a folding stock. Generally, a decent sized muzzle brake is used for a .338 Lapua, which makes it much easier to shoot. If you put on a very long barrel plus a large muzzle brake, the rifle can start to get cumbersome in length to carry around.

[ar15barrels]

Send all the parts to THIS guy:
http://www.rwsgunsmithing.com/ and he can put it together for you

That's a good list.
Someone could also gather up all those parts and make an appointment with me for a same-day build.

[bsumoba]

That's a good list.
Someone could also gather up all those parts and make an appointment with me for a same-day build.

+1 for Randall and same day build.

I would drive down there from the San Jose area just to do it to get a barrel done in a day.

In fact, I will be doing this again

Thanks Randall for accommodating my schedule over this past weekend.

[ar15barrels]

Thanks Randall for accommodating my schedule over this past weekend.

Make sure you push a couple patches down that barrel before you shoot it.
There's probably still some cutting oil in the bore.

[bsumoba]

Make sure you push a couple patches down that barrel before you shoot it.
There's probably still some cutting oil in the bore.

i always clean before shooting. FYI, just did a CBTO test with my 140 amaxs and hybrids and the CBTO is nearly identical to my current barrel when I first got it. i wouldnt be surprised if the load is the same.

Now, back to the actual post...

I love the AICS stock, bartlein barrels and jewell triggers. this is what I have for my tac rifle.

my 338 edge will be sporting a mcmillan a-5 stock, bartlein barrel and jewell trigger which will be a swich barrel/stock with mf f-class rifle. debating on a kahles optic or a vortex razor gen ii. currently, i have a NF competition

[J-cat]

I am not sure if you have used a BEAST, but I'd strongly caution folks to try one out before getting one. I was planning on getting one based on the previews. Perhaps my expectations were too high, but I don't think it lived up to the hype based on my opinion. I find the turret design to be overly complex and difficult to use, granted, you'd probably get used to it in time. The scope can adjust 36 Mils, but you will only achieve this with the right cant or it'll run out of room dialing up, so if you can set the zero stop and get the full 36 Mil, you are running at the extrema on both ends. Of course, 36 Mil is a lot of adjustment, and most folks using .338 Lapua would not need that much. You'd need to be shooting a really high BC bullet to extreme distances.

Tell me how you plan on running the 338 at ELR without the right can't??? Of course you need a canted rail, that's a given. The fact is the Beast has 39 mils of elevation and a 20 mil per turn turret. It's not overly complicated, well maybe it is for you.

Honestly, what you wrote is ridiculous.

[JMP]

J-cat, I'd be happy to shoot long range with you. I am sure I'd benefit greatly from your expertise.