JFK Assassin's Rifle

[B Strong]

Also shooting at paper, not moving and no stress in her breathing. Lame comparison pal

Are you aware that LHO hunted with his older brother?

Might want to take into account LHO's sociopathic tendencies too, because in not having empathy with a fellow human, it makes it much easier to view them without emotional involvement.

[Citadelgrad87]

The word here...Speculation...You really don't have any eyewitness statements or even rumors about him firing the rifle to even zero in the scope or work on working the bolt..

Not speculation. The fragments recovered at walkers house matched the fragments recovered at the JFK murder.

I don't say I have proof he fired it other than that. It's easy to bore sight a scope without firing it.

As far as working the bolt, WRONG. multiple eyewitnesses said he furiously worked the bolt, out on his porch at night.

[bonusweb]

The purpose of the suit wasn't to "clear" Hickey, it was to stop publication of the paperback version of the book, which didn't happen, and if the book was to be published as the paperback version to force the author to retract his allegations, which he did in part.

And I didn't realize Hickey was shot, when did that happen?

And by "guess" I'm assuming you're using confirmation bias in your examination of the facts.

I meant pictures during shooting, of hickey. There were 3 other photos, that would have very likely cleared him, or showed guilt. Those were disappeared by secret service. The publishers did say it hickey could have accidental shot JFK. The book claims was he shot, JFK. Becuase of ballistic angle and eye witnesses, showing he was charging a weapon already charged weapon, heard weapon fire close by, smelled gun powered etc. The book repository was too far away and high for the gunpowder smell. This testimony was from offcial investgations, its part of the records, they did not make it it up after or do the questioning, it was compiled by government investigators the time. They could not prove motive, just that the rifle was fired from hickey location. He was the only one know to holding a rifle in that location. Because they could not prove what he was thinking, they never claimed in the book he was a hired assassin. He could have accidentally shot JFK, he was swinging the charged weapon around.

What's wierd is that JFK had two secret service agents standing on back of his limousine. They would have blocked the shot. They were ordered to leave the limo a few blocks away from the assassination.
There is a video showing the agents protesting to a head agent(someone giving the orders) in the same car as hickey. The back of the JFK's limo has steps and handhold bars, built into trunk area where agents can hold on and stand behind JFK. See the video below. It shows the agents being ordered off the back of JFK's limo.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XY02Qkuc_f8

[Citadelgrad87]

I meant pictures during shooting, of hickey. There were 3 other photos, that would have very likely cleared him, or showed guilt. Those were disappeared by secret service. The publishers did say it hickey could have accidental shot JFK. The book claims was he shot, JFK. Becuase of ballistic angle and eye witnesses, showing he was charging a weapon already charged weapon, heard weapon fire close by, smelled gun powered etc. The book repository was too far away and high for the gunpowder smell. This testimony was from offcial investgations, its part of the records, they did not make it it up after or do the questioning, it was compiled by government investigators the time. They could not prove motive, just that the rifle was fired from hickey location. He was the only one know to holding a rifle in that location. Because they could not prove what he was thinking, they never claimed in the book he was a hired assassin. He could have accidentally shot JFK, he was swinging the charged weapon around.

What's wierd is that JFK had two secret service agents standing on back of his limousine. They would have blocked the shot. They were ordered to leave the limo a few blocks away from the assassination.
There is a video showing the agents protesting to a head agent(someone giving the orders) in the same car as hickey. The back of the JFK's limo has steps and handhold bars, built into trunk area where agents can hold on and stand behind JFK. See the video below. It shows the agents being ordered off the back of JFK's limo.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XY02Qkuc_f8

That's absolutely false about the limo agents. JFK didn't want them on the limo when in parades, it was a HIS order, and they were sop. There were no agents on that limo when it left the airport.

So much FUD.

[ChuckDizzle]

The mechanics of the shot should prove to any shooting enthusiast that people claiming amazing shooting ability don't know their way around firearms.

The head shot, the final and therefore the farthest shot, was 88 yards. What is that, 12 moa? Call it a 6 inch target at a little more than half to 100y. The target was moving directly away from the window, at 10-11 mph, on a road that has a 4% downgrade. Meaning looking through the scope, the target was not moving, just slowly getting smaller. The downgrade eliminates bullet drop as a factor. The shooter was well braced, using boxes.

The shots were not difficult assuming we agree that the shooter was determined to shoot the president.

That is also assuming he was aiming for the head. More than likely he was aiming center mass (as evidence by the first hit), and simply missed high lucking into the headshot. But yes, I don't understand when people think it was some incredible feat of marksmanship to hit a man sized target two out of three times from less than 80 yards with a scoped rifle.

[bonusweb]

That's absolutely false about the limo agents. JFK didn't want them on the limo when in parades, it was a HIS order, and they were sop. There were no agents on that limo when it left the airport.

So much FUD.

Did you watch the video? They were called off. If they were ordered off the detail the day before and it happened all the time, why was the agent complaing. Also JFK does not appear to be giving any directions, so the order (if given), was given beforehand.

Are you just inventing JFK gave the order, or is there some kind of testimony saying he gave the order?.
You sound like a government shill, are you on the clock? How much do they pay you to be a naysayer on forums? Do they hire Americans shills or are sitting in a cubicle in India reading a script? If you are an American I guess it least that's something positive.

[dfletcher]

Both say they did not to go to court, they offered no retraction, apology. Probably paid his legal fees. They stood by claims, but did leave an out saying maybe he accidentally shot Kennedy. The secret service grabbed and I guess destroyed 3:more photos taken during shooting of hickey. Supposedly if it cleared him they would be public by now.

The Secret Service grabbed & destroyed photos - you "guess"? Further "guessing" that if photos "cleared" him they would have been published? How about proving some of what is asserted?

Really - this is what passes for evidence, this is what people base their opinions on?

How would you like someone to assert that you did something terrible, even by accident, and went to the press, published a book based on this sort of garbarge?

[ChuckDizzle]

The Secret Service grabbed & destroyed photos - you "guess"? Further "guessing" that if photos "cleared" him they would have been published? How about proving some of what is asserted?

Really - this is what passes for evidence, this is what people base their opinions on?

How would you like someone to assert that you did something terrible, even by accident, and went to the press, published a book based on this sort of garbarge?

You just hit on a core problem with discussing things with conspiracy theorists, they work things backwards and shift the burden of proof to others even when they are making extraordinary claims.

If a piece of evidence contradicts their preconceived notion, it simply becomes part of the conspiracy.

[dfletcher]

Did you watch the video? They were called off. If they were ordered off the detail the day before and it happened all the time, why was the agent complaing. Also JFK does not appear to be giving any directions, so the order (if given), was given beforehand.

Are you just inventing JFK gave the order, or is there some kind of testimony saying he gave the order?.
You sound like a government shill, are you on the clock? How much do they pay you to be a naysayer on forums? Do they hire Americans shills or are sitting in a cubicle in India reading a script? If you are an American I guess it least that's something positive.

Well, he's probably part of the conspiracy - right?

You have no evidence, so you insult & accuse someone who disagrees of being a shill. How about keeping to the evidence?

Secret Service Agent Emory Roberts was the agent who ordered other agents off the running boards - he's driving the back up vehicle, he's the fellow the other agenst are turning to in the film. Per Agent Clint Hill the President had more than once told agents to stay off the running boards during motorcades. One agent previously heard him say "keep those Ivy league charlatans off the limo".

Should we also suppose Mac Kilduff, the fellow who ordered the bubbletop removed, was involved? After all, what good is pulling off the agents if the bubbletop is still on?

[ChuckDizzle]

While I find the negligent discharge theory to be interesting at the very least I have to wonder; even if the head shot was fired from the AR-15 behind the POTUS, was the shot through his neck/upper chest likely a fatal wound anyways?

[dfletcher]

You just hit on a core problem with discussing things with conspiracy theorists, they work things backwards and shift the burden of proof to others even when they are making extraordinary claims.

If a piece of evidence contradicts their preconceived notion, it simply becomes part of the conspiracy.

When Larry King was on radio a fellow called "The Numbers Guy" used to call and by playing with numbers would tell you why a thing was so, as in "The reason the Steelers won 24 to 7 is because Player so & so is number 8 and they played at Three Rivers Stadium - 3 times 8 is 24. And this is the 7th time the Raiders have played against Terry Bradshaw so that's why the score was 24 to 7 ......."

Of course he always did this after the fact - never before.

The conspiracy folks ought to apply to themselves the standards they seek in the Warren Commission.

Regarding being shot in the neck, it's impossible to know for sure but the supposition by doctors is it was potentially fatal but survivable.

[bonusweb]

The Secret Service grabbed & destroyed photos - you "guess"? Further "guessing" that if photos "cleared" him they would have been published? How about proving some of what is asserted?

Really - this is what passes for evidence, this is what people base their opinions on?

How would you like someone to assert that you did something terrible, even by accident, and went to the press, published a book based on this sort of garbarge?

Well they took custody of the photos, but they never turned up as evidence. So maybe they were misplaced? Still highly irregular and unprofessional. Kinda a big event to lose evidence on. Especially when the secret service are the focus of the said evidence. Kinda of like if police lose dash cam video after police involved shooting. If there was nothing bad in the photos they should be mentioned and logged, and archived with other photos. Any photo taken that day during the shooting, at that location is considered important.

[ChuckDizzle]

When Larry King was on radio a fellow called "The Numbers Guy" used to call and by playing with numbers would tell you why a thing was so, as in "The reason the Steelers won 24 to 7 is because Player so & so is number 8 and they played at Three Rivers Stadium - 3 times 8 is 24. And this is the 7th time the Raiders have played against Terry Bradshaw so that's why the score was 24 to 7 ......."

Of course he always did this after the fact - never before.

The conspiracy folks ought to apply to themselves the standards they seek in the Warren Commission.

I would rather they just own up to the unreliability of eyewitnesses. They take every contradicting detail from those oral statements and make mountains out of those molehills. The reason they weren't pursued was because even in 1964 the FBI knew eyewitnesses had limited use as factual evidence.

[Citadelgrad87]

Did you watch the video? They were called off. If they were ordered off the detail the day before and it happened all the time, why was the agent complaing. Also JFK does not appear to be giving any directions, so the order (if given), was given beforehand.

Are you just inventing JFK gave the order, or is there some kind of testimony saying he gave the order?.
You sound like a government shill, are you on the clock? How much do they pay you to be a naysayer on forums? Do they hire Americans shills or are sitting in a cubicle in India reading a script? If you are an American I guess it least that's something positive.

Cut the lame government shill crap, I sound like someone who knows far more than you do ago this subject, nothing more.

Is it your position that nobody is allowed to, or does, think that Oswald acted alone, only people working for the government and paid to say so? How original.

I've seen the video. It's shot at the airport, correct?

JFK had a standard order, he did not like or want agents on the car when it was in parades. It was gone into in detail in the original and every subsequent investigation.

I'm not inventing anything. The limo had, in addition to the small steps on the rear bumper, retractable running boards for additional agents, these were NEVER used because JFK didn't like it.

There was a 1955 Cadillac four door, packed with agents inside and on the running boards, called "halfback", directly behind the limo. This is the vehicle a hickey was riding on the running board of.

The orders were in place and known before the trip. I don't know which agent or agents are in the video, but they may have been local secret service agents who were not aware of Kennedy's wishes.

And right back at you, are you making up that they were ordered off by someone? Do you honestly think "someone" ordered the secret service agents off the limo 20 minutes before the president was murdered and nobody bothered to identify who have that order? Who gave that order?

Is your only source for this assertion that ambiguous video? Wow

[dfletcher]

Well they took custody of the photos, but they never turned up as evidence. So maybe they were misplaced? Still highly irregular and unprofessional. Kinda a big event to lose evidence on. Especially when the secret service are the focus of the said evidence. Kinda of like if police lose dash cam video after police involved shooting. If there was nothing bad in the photos they should be mentioned and logged, and archived with other photos. Any photo taken that day during the shooting, at that location is considered important.

Step one would be documenting that the FBI took possession of these specific photographs and that hasn't been done. And not all photographs taken that day are important. There are photos showing the President and others simply driving by, nothing happening. Not everything is "evidence". Are we to suppose the FBI was careful to ditch evidence, except the picture that "proves" Agent Hickey did what is asserted?

Folks ought to focus on evidence, not "what ifs" and supposition.