JFK Assassin's Rifle

[chuckdc]

I understand your impressions. I recently saw some documentary somewhere that fired carcano 6.5 rounds into, iirc human skulls with gelatin in them to simulate the liquidity of the brain tissue. They found that penetrating the skull and entering the brain causes dramatic yaw and explosive results, and demonstrated that several times. So the same heavy jacketed military round does one thing in muscle, and something totally different in brain like material.

Sounds like they got it right.. There's a big difference in firing into loose gelatin versus contained in a closed (really, almost sealed) compartment. The shock wave in loose gel can disperse some, but encased in a relatively small vessel, like a cranial vault, it will have to go somewhere. top of the head is where the skull sutures meet and a somewhat thinner part of the skull, so it's a place that might "fail" first, especially if it's just been violated by a bullet. Brain is less fibrous and tough than muscle is, so if you really wanted to simulate it, the consistency of the gel used would need to be different.


LHO did it. If anything, the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand was a LOT harder to bring off, and yet it happened.

[dfletcher]

Oh, and about the AR-15 thought.. where is the ejected shell casing? If an AR had been fired, there'd have been a 5.56 casing somewhere within about 15-20 feet (probably to the right and backwards) of where he was standing. Especially at that time, that would have DEFINITELY been noticed, as .223/5.56 was not in common use at all.

Well obviously the same fellow who spirited away Oswald's never found curtain rods picked up the empty AR brass ......

[44fred]

I'm giving all you guys permission to use my newly head head, once they harvest the needed parts, for ballistic testing. Just don't put it on YouTube so my wife sees it.

[bonusweb]

Hey you want see a video about the secret service AR15? Its on Netflix called "JFK: the smoking gun" shows photo.

[bonusweb]

Hey you want see a video about the secret service AR15? Its on Netflix called "JFK: the smoking gun" shows photo.

[IMG]http://media.philly.com/images/300*225/jfk-hickey-with-rifle.jpg[/IMG]

[B Strong]

Hey you want see a video about the secret service AR15? Its on Netflix called "JFK: the smoking gun" shows photo.

I watched it last year when it ran on (iirc) Reelz.

The film is based on a book, Mortal Error, and George Hikey successfully sued the author and publisher - there was and is no evidence proving the theory in question.

The author made his own mortal error when he came up with a theory and worked backwards to prove it. Pretty clear example of circular reasoning.

[Helmut Shmacher Space Chimp]

You know I hear people saying how Oswald was a good rifleman. But did he even get a chance to shoot the Carcano before he shot JFK ?

[bonusweb]

I watched it last year when it ran on (iirc) Reelz.

The film is based on a book, Mortal Error, and George Hikey successfully sued the author and publisher - there was and is no evidence proving the theory in question.

The author made his own mortal error when he came up with a theory and worked backwards to prove it. Pretty clear example of circular reasoning.

He did not successfully sue, it was never argued in court. Evidence was never presented either way. Hickey never tried to defend or offer to comment publicly. The publisher settled out of court. True or false most cases settle because of how expensive courts are. No retraction was offered or given. In other words it means very little but that both sides did not want go to court.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortal_Error

[Citadelgrad87]

You know I hear people saying how Oswald was a good rifleman. But did he even get a chance to shoot the Carcano before he shot JFK ?

Sure he did. He put a round through the window of general garrisons house in March 1963 and there is speculation that he fired the rifle during several outings before the murders.

[B Strong]

He did not successfully sue, it was never argued in court. Evidence was never presented either way. Hickey never tried to defend or offer to comment publicly. The publisher settled out of court. True or false most cases settle because of how expensive courts are. No retraction was offered or given. In other words it means very little but that both sides did not want go to court.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortal_Error

It wasn't Hickey's job to defend himself against the allegations, the burden of proof was on the author to prove his case, which as you noted wasn't adjudicated - how you extrapolate that out to support your claim I have no idea but the publisher settled the suit, not the author.

The scenario you cite can just as easily be viewed as proof that the allegations contained in Mortal Error are false.

[Helmut Shmacher Space Chimp]

Sure he did. He put a round through the window of general garrisons house in March 1963 and there is speculation that he fired the rifle during several outings before the murders.

The word here...Speculation...You really don't have any eyewitness statements or even rumors about him firing the rifle to even zero in the scope or work on working the bolt..

[B Strong]

The word here...Speculation...You really don't have any eyewitness statements or even rumors about him firing the rifle to even zero in the scope or work on working the bolt..

Posner quotes Marina as having stated that LHO admitted shooting at Walker:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/walker.txt

"The Warren Commission account of the evidence follows. Not a
great deal has been added to the evidence since then, but two
things can be pointed out:

1.) Marina Oswald has remained utterly consistent as regards the
main points of her testimony. She repeated them to the House
Select Committee in the late 70s, to author Gerald Posner,
and even the NBC TV account of her experiences broadcast in
November 1993 (which had a strong conspiratorialist bias)
repeated her account of Lee coming home late at night and
telling Marina he had shot a Walker.

2.) The House Select Committee analyzed the bullet recovered
from Walker's house using Neutron Activitation Analysis, and
concluded that the bullet was "probably a Mannlicher-Carcano
bullet" (Report, p. 60)."

And further:

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/oswald_m1.htm

"Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever see him clean the rifle?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. I said before I had never seen it before. But I think you understand. I want to help you, and that is why there is no reason for concealing anything. I will not be charged with anything.

Mr. GOPADZE. She says she was not sworn in before. But now inasmuch as she is sworn in, she is going to tell the truth.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you see him clean the rifle a number of times?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Could you help us by giving some estimate of the times as you remember it?

Mrs. OSWALD. About four times---about four or five times, I think.

Mr. RANKIN. Did your husband ever tell you why he was cleaning the--that is, that he had been using it and needed to be cleaned after use?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, I did not ask him, because I thought it was quite normal that when you have a rifle you must clean it from time to time.
...

Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever observe that the rifle had been taken out of the apartment at Neely Street---that is, that it was gone?

Mrs. OSWALD. Before the incident with General Walker, I know that Lee was preparing for something. He took photographs of that house and he told me not to enter his room. I didn't know about these photographs, but when I came into the room once in general he tried to make it so that I would spend less time in that room. I noticed that quite accidentally one time when I was cleaning the room he tried to take care of it himself. I asked him what kind of photographs are these, but he didn't say anything to me.

Mr. RANKIN. That is the photographs of the Walker house that you were asking about?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. Later, after he had fired, he told me about it.
I didn't know that he intended to do it---that he was planning to do it.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you learn at any time that he had been practicing with the rifle?

Mrs. OSWALD. I think that he went once or twice. I didn't actually see him take the rifle, but I knew that he was practicing.

Mr. RANKIN. Could you give us a little help on how you knew?

Mrs. OSWALD. He told me. And he would mention that in passing---it isn't
as if he said, "Well, today I am going"---it wasn't as if he said, "Well, today I am going to take the rifle and go and practice." But he would say, "Well, today I will take the rifle along for practice."

Therefore, I don't know whether he took it from the house or whether perhaps he even kept the rifle somewhere outside. There was a little square, sort of a little courtyard where he might have kept it.

When you asked me about the rifle, I said that Lee didn't have a rifle, but he also had a gun, a revolver.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall when he first had the pistol, that you remember?

Mrs. OSWALD. He had that on Neely Street, but I think that he acquired the rifle before he acquired the pistol. The pistol I saw twice once in his room, and the second time when I took these photographs.

Mr. RANKIN. What period of time was there between when he got the rifle and you learned of it, and the time that you first learned about the pistol?

Mrs. OSWALD. I can't say.

Mr. RANKIN. When you testified about his practicing with the rifle, are you describing a period when you were still at Neely Street?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know where he practiced with the rifle?

Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know where. I don't know the name of the place where this took place. But I think it was somewhere out of town. It seems to me a place called Lopfield.

Mr. RANKIN. Would that be at the airport---Love Field?

Mrs. OSWALD. Love Field.

Mr. RANKIN. So you think he was practicing out in the open and not at a rifle range?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall seeing the rifle when the telescopic lens was on it?

Mrs. OSWALD. I hadn't paid any attention initially.

I know a rifle was a rifle. I didn't know whether or not it had a telescope attached to it. But the first time I remember seeing it was in New Orleans, where I recognized the telescope. But probably the telescope was on before. I simply hadn't paid attention. I hope you understand. When I saw it, I thought that all rifles have that.
...
Mr. RANKIN. Is that the same rifle that you are referring to that you took the picture of with your husband and when he had the pistol, too?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. I asked him then why he had dressed himself up like that, with the rifle and the pistol, and I thought that he had gone crazy, and he said he wanted to send that to a newspaper. This was not my business--it was man's business."

It's also been documented in Posner's book that LHO had hunted with his older brother many times before LHO joined the Corps.

[bonusweb]

It wasn't Hickey's job to defend himself against the allegations, the burden of proof was on the author to prove his case, which as you noted wasn't adjudicated - how you extrapolate that out to support your claim I have no idea but the publisher settled the suit, not the author.

The scenario you cite can just as easily be viewed as proof that the allegations contained in Mortal Error are false.

Both say they did not to go to court, they offered no retraction, apology. Probably paid his legal fees. They stood by claims, but did leave an out saying maybe he accidentally shot Kennedy. The secret service grabbed and I guess destroyed 3:more photos taken during shooting of hickey. Supposedly if it cleared him they would be public by now.

[B Strong]

Both say they did not to go to court, they offered no retraction, apology. Probably paid his legal fees. They stood by claims, but did leave an out saying maybe he accidentally shot Kennedy. The secret service grabbed and I guess destroyed 3:more photos taken during shooting of hickey. Supposedly if it cleared him they would be public by now.

The purpose of the suit wasn't to "clear" Hickey, it was to stop publication of the paperback version of the book, which didn't happen, and if the book was to be published as the paperback version to force the author to retract his allegations, which he did in part.

And I didn't realize Hickey was shot, when did that happen?

And by "guess" I'm assuming you're using confirmation bias in your examination of the facts.

[SimonBirch]

lol

Military battle rifle in the hands of a trained marksman? Yeah he did it.

All his shots were at between 50 and 75 yards. My wife with minimal training can keep all shots on a 8 inch gong at 100 yards, off hand with a AK-47 clone. Just saying,

Also shooting at paper, not moving and no stress in her breathing. Lame comparison pal