Long Rang Shooting

[highpower790]

Quite the pissing match!

[LynnJr]

If you're trying to make some mockery of people, you're not very good at it(it'd be nice if you could also learn how to use the quote function). Yes, I'm aware of who Bill Calfee is, you're not him. How you got that embroidery or what it's supposed to mean is pretty irrelevant, so if you're hoping for it to bring you some "cred", nope.

I am not trying to make a mockery of anybody but some of the posts here are doing a pretty good job of it all on there own.A mirror is sometimes a handy instrument to have.The name Bill Calfee rings a bell with me because he is the best 22 gunsmith currently doing work on this planet and I would never say I am him but I might be his "Waterboy".The shirts were presents from "Big Dog" and if you know of Bill Calfee the names should not surprise you or anyone else familiar with his work.I used quotation marks so I solved another of your issues.


The fact is that your advice is generally terrible, your attitude sucks, you're bad at math, you can't even propose a budget to someone for a rifle and include the scope, and now you want to have some superiority complex over Eley match as if Wolf MT is the equivalent of Blazer bulk. You may be a great shooter, but I doubt many people will give a crap considering your attitude. If there was such a way for someone to be so over the top to the point of being a blight on the shooting community in general... you've managed to pull it off.

My advice comes from many years of experience in many longrange disciplines and it was to buy a Savage in 6BR and shoot factory ammo at 600 yards and further.I gave the price of the rifle and the ammo earlier but you might have missed that? I didn't see anyone offering much scope advice just a ballpark price of what a scope might cost.I guess I missed your post on scope choices so please link it here.I was actually a math major but tend to round things off if I find they are to be used as generalities rather than graded.
My opinion on scopes for those viewing is to get what your eyes prefer and not what someone else suggests on a message board.I have several Nightforce 12-42's but my father whom I shoot with prefers the 8-32.I don't like the 8-32 so I get what my eyes prefer.Shooters also tend to promote what they have and not necessarily what is best.
I am not a great shooter just someone who has always liked shooting and once in a while I get lucky.I don't understand your comment on my attitude as I believe YOU were the one to use derogatory language in this post and also the earlier post you linked.Delusional ring a bell?
As to being a blight on the shooting community I actually know several shooters a vice president of a shooting organization a match director
and his coharts that fit that bill much better than myself and I see some of them post here


CSACANNONEER
I gave the OP my honest opinion as someone who seriously tries to promote longrange shooting.I enjoy shooting longrange and have mentored as many new shooters as anyone I know in the various disciplines I like to shoot.
If you have someone interested in longrange shooting such as the original poster I will loan them my guns and ammo free of obligation and let them see if this is what they really want to do before they go wasting copious amounts of money.I call it being prudent while at the same time letting them see what it takes to be competitive.As not all longrange is competitive I also have a somewhat large collection of rifles that can be used for varmints,hunting big game or blasting targets on public lands all at extreme distances and mainly just for fun.
I find most of the comments here geared towards tactical competition and I would not limit anyone to a single discipline without going over the various requirements of such.
If you noticed I am the only poster offering the OP a chance to use top of the line gear without obligation and to offer him/her some guidance as well.I am confident that I can get a new shooter on target at 600 yards and that there targets will be respectable.This is not bragging this is experience and knowing ones equipment.
I hope this helps explain why I would spend so much time on what most would consider a trivial topic at best?
I see from your posts you shoot 50BMG.I have two 50 bmg unlimited guns built on McMillan actions.

[CSACANNONEER]

Lynn,

Yes, I noticed that you are the only one who's offered to let the OP use your equipment and commend you for that. I would have and have done the same in the past but, I've got too much on my plate to make a similar offer right now. Besides, the OP isn't looking for a set up based on a 50BMG cartridge. However, if the OP had registered for the CGSSA reloading club precision rifle class I'll be giving next weekend, he would have been able to meet the rest of the class at Angeles next Sunday and use either of my 50s to hit the little red pig at 600 with every round he had loaded during the class. But, he isn't registered for the class so, that's not an option and, that is why I encouraged him to take you up on your offer.

Have you shot FCSA Matches? If so, do you currently shoot them?

In the end, we are going to have to agree to disagree about learning on a rimfire instead of spending more to learn on a more expensive gun to feed.

[Altahick]

you all should just quit arguing with Lynn hes delusional and always will be

[Merc1138]

My advice comes from many years of experience in many longrange disciplines and it was to buy a Savage in 6BR and shoot factory ammo at 600 yards and further.I gave the price of the rifle and the ammo earlier but you might have missed that? I didn't see anyone offering much scope advice just a ballpark price of what a scope might cost.I guess I missed your post on scope choices so please link it here.I was actually a math major but tend to round things off if I find they are to be used as generalities rather than graded.
My opinion on scopes for those viewing is to get what your eyes prefer and not what someone else suggests on a message board.I have several Nightforce 12-42's but my father whom I shoot with prefers the 8-32.I don't like the 8-32 so I get what my eyes prefer.Shooters also tend to promote what they have and not necessarily what is best.
I am not a great shooter just someone who has always liked shooting and once in a while I get lucky.I don't understand your comment on my attitude as I believe YOU were the one to use derogatory language in this post and also the earlier post you linked.Delusional ring a bell?
As to being a blight on the shooting community I actually know several shooters a vice president of a shooting organization a match director
and his coharts that fit that bill much better than myself and I see some of them post here


CSACANNONEER
I gave the OP my honest opinion as someone who seriously tries to promote longrange shooting.I enjoy shooting longrange and have mentored as many new shooters as anyone I know in the various disciplines I like to shoot.
If you have someone interested in longrange shooting such as the original poster I will loan them my guns and ammo free of obligation and let them see if this is what they really want to do before they go wasting copious amounts of money.I call it being prudent while at the same time letting them see what it takes to be competitive.As not all longrange is competitive I also have a somewhat large collection of rifles that can be used for varmints,hunting big game or blasting targets on public lands all at extreme distances and mainly just for fun.
I find most of the comments here geared towards tactical competition and I would not limit anyone to a single discipline without going over the various requirements of such.
If you noticed I am the only poster offering the OP a chance to use top of the line gear without obligation and to offer him/her some guidance as well.I am confident that I can get a new shooter on target at 600 yards and that there targets will be respectable.This is not bragging this is experience and knowing ones equipment.
I hope this helps explain why I would spend so much time on what most would consider a trivial topic at best?
I see from your posts you shoot 50BMG.I have two 50 bmg unlimited guns built on McMillan actions.

You can't say that a rifle costs X compared to another rifle, when in reality it's going to be X + optic. It doesn't matter if he spends $300 or $3000, that's still more than the cost you stated(and kind of a necessity considering the rifle you mentioned).

Instead of name dropping now you're just dropping titles of people you know. Yes, it's bragging. You've been doing lots of bragging. Doesn't make you any more correct either.

[Steve_In_29]

Ooops did I forgot to answer a question? As you don't know anything about the 6BR which is extremely popular in longrange shooting I figured why waste the bandwith.
His 22 ammo will run him Eley Match .22lr Ammunition Box of 50
Starting at: $13.70 $2750 for decent stuff not the best stuff.I know you wanted him to shoot junk ammo in the 22 so you can try and make a point but lets atleast be realistic.

You also failed to mention how many new barrels he would have to put on his 6BR gun to shoot 500 boxes of ammo but maybe 500 boxes is normal wear and tear on YOUR centerfire barrels?
Can you tell me how many boxes of centerfire ammo you shot in 2012?
Can you give us a percentage of guys shooting longrange that shoot 500 boxes of ammo per year?
Is it 80% or higher?


CSAcannoneer
If I take this guy out to the range what size 5 shot groups would he be shooting without his 22 fundamental training on his very first day? I want to gauge how much larger his groups are going to be with no experience versus spending $2750 on rimfire ammo and $2600 on the rifle or $5350.

Earlier in this thread someone accused myself of not liking 22's so I am including a picture here.I don't know anything about the picture or what it is of or about so maybe that poster can help me out here? Is it even firearms related?

I haven't been posting on the Centerfire Forum much but it sure didn't take long to figure out the wacko on it.

Your reading comprehension as well as ability to follow a logical conversation seems to be very lacking. The OP is NOT an already-well-versed-shooter that is simply looking to get into a new discipline. He is, by his own admission in the opening post of this thread, "not an experienced shooter". How does one gain "experience"...through practice. He will have and be able to afford MUCH more practice with a .22 setup that will allow him to fire thousands of rounds a year then he would with a centerfire setup that he might shoot a couple hundred rounds a year through. Which part of that don't you understand?

Plus even if he never moves on to long range shooting he will still have a nice .22 setup that he, his children and even grandkids can use for the rest of their lives. A rifle/scope combo that can be had for right at $1,000.

Wolf MT is far from "junk ammo" and while I freely admit it is not Olympic Competition quality, it is perfectly suited, both in cost and consistancy, for the OP to develop his basic marksmanship skills. Such skills that are ONLY developed through LOTS of practice, which is where the 10,000rds came from. That number was not given as an expectation of how many rounds he (or anyone) would shoot in a year through a centerfire rifle.

Since you asked (though it has no bearing to the conversation) I shot approximately 2,000rds of centerfire and 10,000ish rounds of .22 ammo last year (I also dry-fired even more then that). Definitely not shooting that much this year though with the increase in costs and decrease in availability.

Strange that with your claimed ability to take a person from non-shooter to consistant hits at 1000yrds in a weekend, that the military hasn't snapped you up for one of their Sniper Training Programs yet.

[luchador768]

I love that the OP checked out of this thread two pages ago.

[FMJBT]

I love that the OP checked out of this thread two pages ago.

Lol, threads like this are what drive grown men to take up things like needlepoint and crochet as a hobby.

[LynnJr]

CSACAONNONR
I have only been to Palomino outside of Sparks for one 50 BMG match but didn't compete.I had Randy Dierks build me my first gun and wanted to get a handle on what I was going to need.I was a FCSA member for years but haven't renewed lately.

Merc1138
Its only bragging if you can't back it up.In this example I can and you can't.
Good luck with your shooting if you actually shoot and remember to get a handle on headspace.

Steve in 29
Your reading comprehension as well as ability to follow a logical conversation seems to be very lacking. The OP is NOT an already-well-versed-shooter that is simply looking to get into a new discipline. He is, by his own admission in the opening post of this thread, "not an experienced shooter". How does one gain "experience"...through practice. He will have and be able to afford MUCH more practice with a .22 setup that will allow him to fire thousands of rounds a year then he would with a centerfire setup that he might shoot a couple hundred rounds a year through. Which part of that don't you understand?

If you ever get the chance to shoot longrange the first thing you will notice is not many shooters show up.
If someone posts they would like to give longrange shooting a try I encourage them to do so.
The rest of the posters here yourself included go on a campaign that he has to shoot 10,000 rounds through a 22 at 200 yards for three years before ever attempting such a thing.
That is 100% pure BS and on top off that you managed to scare yet another shooter away.
You are not helping anyone and are instead discouraging those who want to give the sport a try.
My reading is spot on as I managed in one post to figure out who knows what and who is a keyboard warrior on this forum.
I only hope the OP contacts myself for a day of shooting some truly accurate rifles so we can dispel all of the bad info given out on this thread by posters such as yourself.
One gains longrange shooting experience by shooting longrange which is my recommendation.Your recommendation has him shooting shortrange with a squirrel gun.I know wacko when I see it and the shoe doesn't fit me.I do know who it fits though.

[Merc1138]

CSACAONNONR
I have only been to Palomino outside of Sparks for one 50 BMG match but didn't compete.I had Randy Dierks build me my first gun and wanted to get a handle on what I was going to need.I was a FCSA member for years but haven't renewed lately.

Merc1138
Its only bragging if you can't back it up.In this example I can and you can't.
Good luck with your shooting if you actually shoot and remember to get a handle on headspace.

Steve in 29
Your reading comprehension as well as ability to follow a logical conversation seems to be very lacking. The OP is NOT an already-well-versed-shooter that is simply looking to get into a new discipline. He is, by his own admission in the opening post of this thread, "not an experienced shooter". How does one gain "experience"...through practice. He will have and be able to afford MUCH more practice with a .22 setup that will allow him to fire thousands of rounds a year then he would with a centerfire setup that he might shoot a couple hundred rounds a year through. Which part of that don't you understand?

If you ever get the chance to shoot longrange the first thing you will notice is not many shooters show up.
If someone posts they would like to give longrange shooting a try I encourage them to do so.
The rest of the posters here yourself included go on a campaign that he has to shoot 10,000 rounds through a 22 at 200 yards for three years before ever attempting such a thing.
That is 100% pure BS and on top off that you managed to scare yet another shooter away.
You are not helping anyone and are instead discouraging those who want to give the sport a try.
My reading is spot on as I managed in one post to figure out who knows what and who is a keyboard warrior on this forum.
I only hope the OP contacts myself for a day of shooting some truly accurate rifles so we can dispel all of the bad info given out on this thread by posters such as yourself.
One gains longrange shooting experience by shooting longrange which is my recommendation.Your recommendation has him shooting shortrange with a squirrel gun.I know wacko when I see it and the shoe doesn't fit me.I do know who it fits though.

No one ever said he had to shoot 10,000 rounds either. Do I need to go back and count the lies you've posted in this thread about supposed statements from people?

"squirrel gun" lol.

BTW, (and seriously, is using the quote function so difficult?) you haven't backed anything up. The only thing you've done(and it's not something minor, I didn't feel a need to comment on this as CSACANNONEER already posted something that was close to my own sentiment on the matter) is offer to let the guy shoot your guns. That's great, no one is giving you crap for that. But you've repeatedly lied, posted nonsense, misquoted people, put words in other people's mouths that were never stated, and fairly consistently managed to talk crap about everyone else's choices in equipment with your comments about "junk ammo" and "squirrel guns". You're pretty much doing the same thing(albiet from a different perspective) that people get sick of from the "Tacticool operator" types. It's not exactly endearing. Flies, vinegar, honey, and all that.

[Steve_In_29]

If you ever get the chance to shoot longrange the first thing you will notice is not many shooters show up.
If someone posts they would like to give longrange shooting a try I encourage them to do so.
The rest of the posters here yourself included go on a campaign that he has to shoot 10,000 rounds through a 22 at 200 yards for three years before ever attempting such a thing.
That is 100% pure BS and on top off that you managed to scare yet another shooter away.
You are not helping anyone and are instead discouraging those who want to give the sport a try.
My reading is spot on as I managed in one post to figure out who knows what and who is a keyboard warrior on this forum.
I only hope the OP contacts myself for a day of shooting some truly accurate rifles so we can dispel all of the bad info given out on this thread by posters such as yourself.
One gains longrange shooting experience by shooting longrange which is my recommendation.Your recommendation has him shooting shortrange with a squirrel gun.I know wacko when I see it and the shoe doesn't fit me.I do know who it fits though.

Yet again, you have proven that you are incapable of carrying on a logical discussion or comprehending what other people post. The only shoe I see is the one in your mouth attached to your foot.

Contrary to the words you insist on putting in every bodies mouths, neither myself nor anyone else here, has said that long-range-shooting is learned by any means other then long-range-shooting.

What you have consistently failed to grasp is that the OP stated he is an inexperienced shooter and given that admission, he needs to practice the basics of marksmanship to get a solid foundation on which to build any long-range skills. A foundation that any TRUE marksman will tell you is based on repetition and practice.

Given the OPs stated lack of experience, what was prudently recommended by almost everyone but you, was that he purchase a quality .22 rifle/scope which would allow him to get in the requisite practice in the most affordable way. $2 a pop 6BR rounds are not a cost effective way to learn basic marksmanship for anyone short of an Oil Sheik.

Since you have shown yourself to also be mathematically challenged I will break my arbitrarily selected 10,000rds figure down for you as well. It equals less then 200rds of .22 a weekend for a year or a brick-a-weekend for 5 months. Not exactly an insurmountable delay prior to moving on to long-range if he still so desired.

If anything it is your psychotic, troll-like behavior in this thread that put the OP off from taking you up on your offer to let him shoot your rifle. Though I now notice you didn't actually make that offer until well after the OP had taken the advice on a .22 and left the thread.

I still find it hard to believe that our government (or a PMC) has let someone with your supposed skill at teaching marksmanship slip through their fingers and hasn't offered you a high paying job teaching our nations snipers. Since it seems that all a non-shooter needs is a couple hours with you and they are a consistent 1000yd killer that can be sent out to the front.

On Edit: By the way I have shot long-range before at the local NRA Regional here and the 50 target firing line was full. Stock M1 Garand with open sights at 1000yds. No 6BR or fancy rifle/scope thank you very much.

[LynnJr]

Merc1138
"No one ever said he had to shoot 10,000 rounds either. Do I need to go back and count the lies you've posted in this thread about supposed statements from people?"
"But you've repeatedly lied, posted nonsense, misquoted people, put words in other people's mouths that were never stated, and fairly consistently managed to talk crap about everyone else's choices in equipment with your comments about "junk ammo"

Steve in 29
.22: 10,000rds divided by a 500rd brick = 20 bricks x $59.99 = $1,199.80 (Wolf MT)
"I will break my arbitrarily selected 10,000rds figure down for you as well. It equals less then 200rds of .22 a weekend for a year or a brick-a-weekend for 5 months. Not exactly an insurmountable delay prior to moving on to long-range"
"Lapua centerX has worked the best out of all my .22's at distance. The wolf match is great as well, but opens up a bit at over 100y."

Now I fully realise that your a little thick Merc1138 but the above quotes are in the form of quotes and they show you as the liar don't they?
As to squirrel gun isn't that a very common name given to 22's?
As to junk ammo would that not describe ammo that "opens up" a 100 yards earlier than you want the OP to practice at?

You then ramble on saying I am putting words in peoples mouths.I believe its actually called cut copy and paste and its taken directly from there posts.Again please read the posts and comprehend what they are saying before replying.If that is supposed to be in quotes let me know.

This is for Steve in 29

Contrary to the words you insist on putting in every bodies mouths, neither myself nor anyone else here, has said that long-range-shooting is learned by any means other then long-range-shooting.

"A good 22 and a few years of practice and you'll be ready to go."

"When a shooter masters a 22 at 200yds, they are ready to jump into a centerfire and push the target out to 800yds and beyond."

I think those are quotes taken from this thread that actually show you as the liar here an that the person with the foot in his mouth is obvious to all reading.

Back on topic if that is even remotely possible?
Anyone wanting to get into longrange shooting should give it a try.There is no magic to it as some would have you believe and it is fun for beginners and seasoned veterans alike.Practice and more importantly learning from your mistakes while practicing is what will make you a better longrange shooter.

[Merc1138]

No, I can't say I've heard many people these days call a .22lr target rifle a "squirrel gun", nor does Steve_in_29's math demand that the OP shoot 10,000 rounds. He was giving you a cost difference example. Also, it's still not "junk ammo".

You've got issues.

[LynnJr]

Merc1138
This kinda says it all doesn't it?

Merc1138
I need a LIFE!!

Once you figure out what headspace is and how it works I would suggest you spend 3 years learning the fundamentals with a 22 "Squirrel Gun" before ever attempting a longrange shot.
For some people yourself included baby steps would be the best approach.

[Merc1138]

Why I can't image how anyone could possibly take all of your BS as being an unnecessarily hostile elitist jerk. How about some excerpts? You'll also note that I don't need to misquote anyone, or type out incorrect statements while claiming it's just a use of "copy and paste" like you have. Insult after insult, repeatedly talking crap about a group of people you've apparently never met and know nothing about, making silly proclamations about some status you claim yet no one cares about, attacking people over their post count and automated user title change that occurs with post count, and I'm sure I've missed some other snide comment of yours in this thread about weekend warriors or something.

I would also stay clear of the guys running around in fatigues and jumping through tires.
If you want to shoot longrange take up Palma F-class or Benchrest and leave the gung ho stuff to the Rambo types.

To the poster who shot 22's for several years before going to longrange.
If your buddy took a new shooter out and spent a day with him and he couldn't hit a gong at 550 yards he should get a new barrel put on that rifle or change the scope as something is seriously wrong.I can take a kid out to 600 yards who has never fired a gun and in 2 hours the gong will be boring for him/her to hit anymore.

Over 12,000 posts and you haven't learned a thing.

Now go start a new thread titled "Headspace"and ask why and you can cut copy and paste what I wrote so you ask it right.

I think your reading skills could use a little bit of polishing.
I would never tell someone interested in Longrange shooting to buy a 22.I wouldn't tell someone interested in Formula 1 to buy a 3 speed Schwinn bicycle either.
You didn't put up a post about the headspace you know nothing about but now your handing out more bad advice on a sport you know nothing about.I just finished posting on the Calfee website and come here to find out from you of all people that I don't like 22's.You simply can't make this stuff up.

This is were you guy lose me.You make stuff up because you simply don't know the answers.Why don't you know the answers because you don't ask questions of those that do know.You would rather argue than learn something.

Earlier in this thread someone accused myself of not liking 22's so I am including a picture here.I don't know anything about the picture or what it is of or about so maybe that poster can help me out here? Is it even firearms related?

Good luck with your shooting if you actually shoot and remember to get a handle on headspace.

Steve in 29
Your reading comprehension as well as ability to follow a logical conversation seems to be very lacking.


The rest of the posters here yourself included go on a campaign that he has to shoot 10,000 rounds through a 22 at 200 yards for three years before ever attempting such a thing.

Your recommendation has him shooting shortrange with a squirrel gun.I know wacko when I see it and the shoe doesn't fit me.I do know who it fits though.

Now I fully realise that your a little thick Merc1138 but the above quotes are in the form of quotes and they show you as the liar don't they?


This is for Steve in 29


I think those are quotes taken from this thread that actually show you as the liar here an that the person with the foot in his mouth is obvious to all reading.

Merc1138
This kinda says it all doesn't it?

Merc1138
I need a LIFE!!

Once you figure out what headspace is and how it works I would suggest you spend 3 years learning the fundamentals with a 22 "Squirrel Gun" before ever attempting a longrange shot.
For some people yourself included baby steps would be the best approach.