Scope For Bench Shooting

[NorCalFocus]

I was shooting 1" diamonds with center dots at 100 yards yesterday. I was using my Viper HSLR FFP at max power. I had no problem seeing the dots and diamonds.

If you do a little research you'll find that the subtenstions on FFP scopes vs SFP scopes aren't much different if at all.

[smoothy8500]

Don't "most" 100yd paper-punching shooters firing off the bench set their scopes at max power anyways? Seems like a SFP scope would save the average shooter a few bucks since they (probably) never would use/need FFP.

[LynnJr]

Yes most set at max power but if mirage is bad they will dial it back. Alot still use fixed power 35X 40X and 45X Leupold's to save on weight so they can use fatter or longer barrels.

[diver160651]

Scope For Bench Shooting

. The marketing teams all know most American's want to buy something and use it. We don't like to read directions our spend months learning a craft. Hence popularity of the SFP subtensions in the US market.



Diver

I was responding to this. We all started with FFP and post crosshairs a million years ago. We then went second focal plain and had to learn how to use a scope.

Now that the military has gone to variable power it is easier to teach FFP than it is to teach SFP atleast according to Leupold.

I'll agree that it is easier to teach how to measure with an accurate ruler than with one that is guaranteed to be inaccurate in all but roughly 1 spot. Lol and even then, that spot is often not usable.

Said in another way, to me, if your needs require a SFP, then duplex reticles or reticles without subtensions should also be all that's needed. You and I have both discussed and agree that you can easily index the concentric rings of a range target with the proper SFP non subtensioned setup. For close range, no real need for subtensions either.

The guys like to sell scopes, they should, that's their business. Scopes with subtensions, MOA, MIL and BDC are sexy to the US market with SFP being much cheaper and in general being on more lower end scopes than FFP. These are where the mfgs make most their money and are focusing their marketing efforts.

And on another topic - I still think how easy you make it for some to experience the long shot it is something to be appreciated.

Again, nothing I am saying is meant to be a smart ***, maybe to get one to crack a smile - but I know my writing sucks and can appear not exactly how I intend it.


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[LynnJr]

I was shooting 1" diamonds with center dots at 100 yards yesterday. I was using my Viper HSLR FFP at max power. I had no problem seeing the dots and diamonds.

If you do a little research you'll find that the subtenstions on FFP scopes vs SFP scopes aren't much different if at all.

The subtensions should be the same but on a SFP scope it is power dependant on the subtensions value.
So at 12 power it wouldn't be the same as on 42 power.

On a FFP scope 5 power is the same as 22 power with regards to subtensions so no math or correction is required. Simplicity of use is why the military uses them now that variable magnification is in use.

[TMB 1]

I was doing pretty good shooting golf balls from 10 yards out to a little past 100 yards with 2-7 Weaver 40/44 on 10/22 off the bench. Crosshair stays same size 2-7.

[JMP]

There's a lot of good information. The difference of opinion in this thread is an apples vs. oranges debate. The truth is, if you have an unlimited amount of money, there is not a single one size fits all optimal scope. If you are shooting on paper, as BR shooters do, I prefer all the magnification you can get. The paper records your shot, and you can adjust from there. I am not a BR shooter, but I certainly shoot on paper for testing and load development. I don't bother buying paper targets for load development. I use a ball point pen and draw and "X" on the paper or cardboard. I want a scope where I can aim for the center of the "X", which is basically a dimensionless point. Exact point of aim is critical to ensure accuracy. Most of my FFP scopes have reticles that are fine enough or have an open center so that I can aim in the dead center of a single bullet hole. If you have the thick type reticle, then you have the option of using a diamond shape target where you can use a lower magnification and align your crosshairs with the corners of the diamond. A lot of tactical shooters or iron sight shooters will use this more implicit measure for alignment. I prefer the high magnification route.

For me, the scopes I use for a 6mm would be unacceptable for my boomsticks, and vice versa.

FFP for long range, off range shooters, (apparently I failed to address) it is about communication consistency, both quickly and accurately to get more rounds on target.

This is an important point. If you are shooting on paper at a long distance, a less expensive 100x telescope can serve excellently as an effective spotting scope.

Now, in non-paper LR/ELR shooting at various ranges, you will often use two people, a spotter and a shooter. Why? For speed and weather conditions, I cannot simultaneously operate my rangefinder, spotting scope, rifle scope, and rifle. I want the spotter to have an FFP reticle in the spotting scope so that he can call accurate corrections that match up with my rifle scope.

If I am shooting really far, I want a scope that has a HUGE amount of internal elevation and a big zoom ratio. I also want a scope that has lenses optimized for very long distances. I have found that a scope that provides the best adaptability for 0-1,000 yard shooting will have lenses geared differently from those optimized for 2,000 yard shooting. If you run out of travel, you are at a big disadvantage.

If you want to be optimally suited with a great tripod, spotting scope, range finder, and rifle scope, I believe that you are going to want to open your checkbook very wide and purchase a bunch of high end European instruments as they are ahead of the curve in both engineering and workmanship. Of course, some of it falls outside of the range of what would be considered practical. There are very few civilians ranging with a Vector 23 from a tripod that has dialing knobs for precise adjustments.

[Blade Gunner]

For what it's worth, I have good results with Nikon 223 BDC retical scopes. As long as you stick with 55gr, the subtensions work fine.

[naeco81]

I haven't read the entire thread, so apologies if this was already covered. FFP reticles are important for long distance shooting because the reticle ticks are accurate throughout the entire zoom range. SFP reticle is only accurate at one position in the zoom range. IIRC SFP reticle zoom was created for varmint hunters who didn't want a magnified reticle potentially obstructing the view of very small varmint targets, but I'm not a varmint shooter so can't speak to this personally. For long distance target, FFP reticle variable zoom or fixed zoom is preferred. FYI 300yds is not long distance.

If you want to shoot 100-300yds IMO you are much better off buying a fixed zoom scope. Unless you're dropping $3k on a variable scope you won't be getting competitive glass or build quality as with a $1k fixed. And this matters because your adjustments will not be precise with cheaper scopes. You do not need 25x zoom for anything. Not even for 1500yds+ out. Buy a quality 10x fixed and you're gtg for 100-1000 easy, provided you can do the math for the longer end of the spectrum. For your 100-300 just 6x will be more than adequate. Last tip, put more $ into your optic than your rifle. A modern $600-700 rifle will be plenty adequate, but most budget scopes will not.

[smittty]

I tried to read all the replies but honestly I don't know how helpful all the deep descriptions are going to be to a new shooter.

300 yards is not long distance shooting.

Any of the current 223 scopes that have reticles ranged for 100, 200, 300, etc, will put the shooter on target without to much brain damage trying to figure out how to use the reticle.

I suggest starting out with one of the bullet drop compensating reticle (BDC) specific for 223/5.56. This is nikons version,

There are lots of options for BDC reticles so look at different scopes and choose one with a reticle that looks good to your eye.

These are simple to use and make it easy to hit targets, especially since the OP will be using this at the range on targets at known distances.

Mil-dot or milling reticles require the shooter to do math or use a mil-dot master to figure out where to hold. This can be fun if you're geek engineer like me but even I sometimes like the math to be done for me!

Good luck,

[diver160651]

Scope For Bench Shooting

JMP good points about the wallet.. not everyone has had time behind a set of V21/V23s, much less a PLRF in 25c or 15... Once someone used them for sometime, they start to realize just how inaccurate ranging things can be. I know that sounds weird to some, but the small beam and remote triggers identifies just how hard accurate range finding is.

Now onto your spoter 60 and that crazy Hensoldt scope of yours - a Getzo or CF RRS with a geared head for the spotter and you've invested enough to get a new Tesla / even before you have a rifle or a round down range.

ELR done in field style and correctly were the CEP is still smaller than the target isn't a cheap endeavor. Few people have your level of kit.




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[NorCalFocus]

If you want to shoot at fixed know distances then a BDC can work okay. How ever what happens when you need to shoot at 265 yards and not 300? Now your back guessing your holdover with a BDC. with my FFP MOA scaled reticle I always have a hold point.

[smittty]

If you want to shoot at fixed know distances then a BDC can work okay. How ever what happens when you need to shoot at 265 yards and not 300?

You hold at 250 plus a "hair"!

It's not that complicated.

Even using mil-dots or mils, you're using judgment.

[NorCalFocus]

You hold at 250 plus a "hair"!



It's not that complicated.



Even using mil-dots or mils, you're using judgment.

Sure if you want to guess and fire multiple shots till you get a hit. I want a first round hit.

Also no your not guessing using a MIL or MOA hash scope that you can dial. That's the whole point.

[LynnJr]

If your having trouble with a BDC you can call Kenton Industries and have them Lazer etch a turret that matches your exact bullet and velocity for under $100 and they work easier than any SFP/FFP scope you can buy. You turn the turret until it reads the yardage you are shooting at.