Scope For Bench Shooting

[BABUSA]

Diver
The Original Posters question was which scope for BENCH SHOOTING wasn't it?

Often times what I see on these internet forums is a direct question gets asked and Hunter/Tactical guys chime in that because they use a certain type of equipment somebody else needs it when they really don't.
You won't find any of the competitions where a small group is needed to win using MIL scopes or FFP scopes and money has nothing at all to do with it.
When you want to shoot 3.5 inch groups at 1000 yards you want a scope that has very small clicks on it like the Nightforce Benchrest models with 1/8 moa adjustments.
If one click is 3.6 inches you don't stand a chance because score counts just as much as group does.
If your only shooting 3 foot gongs by all means get a FFP and toss your rangefinding out the window.
Care to elaborate on how SFP scopes are slow and inaccurate? I see it just the opposite. To my way of thinking 1.250 inch adjustments at 1000 yards are more precise than 3.6 inch adjustments? I liked it to crude adjustments and fine tuning.

https://youtu.be/dIxy84iH8hQ

And what are low travel Benchrest Scopes? I always thought hunting scopes had low travel?
I know Benchrest scopes always have more magnification and more range of magnification than any other scopes.

OP said nothing about competition shooting, or wanting to shoot out 1000 yds.

He wants to punch paper at 100-300 yds...and shoot some steel @ 600 yds

Doesn't matter if he goes MOA or MIL...3x-6x will work on the bottom end and 15x-25x on the top end is plenty...44, 50, or 56 objective...depends on his budget.

[LynnJr]

Wanted to get some advice on what scope parameters would be best for bench shooting from 100 - 300 yards.

Bench shooting at 100-300 yards is done with a SFP high magnification MOA scope and it doesn't matter if you compete or don't.
Yes he can use a tactical scope if he is willing to make compromises. No, going to mils would not help at all it would hinder.
And FFP is for guys not wanting a separate rangefinder it serves no other purpose and is harmful at 100-300 yards.
If he said COMPETE the 223 would be laughed at and a March scope with a very fine crosshairs or offset 1/32 dot would have been included.
He did say best in his original post

[diver160651]

Diver
The "E" stands for Extreme to Bryan Litz.

Ya, he is in the process of rebranding and controlling Extended Long Range Shooting to for his and his Companies (AB's) Profits. That doesn't change the facts. He is also wrong about (and argued against) the full value of SD and CE ~ although the affiliation with Berger/Lapua and recent 4DOF from Hornady seems to have softened his postings arguing on that topic.

This is another entire can of worms, discussed at length and for another thread all together.

Either way, there is a lot of miss-information on youtube, here etc.. In time the macho feel or rebranding to Extreme Long Range Shooting, I am sure will change. Marketing hype can do that. But more often than not, just like the bad video you posted, when I here/see the puffed out chest -- and EXTREME Long Range shooting sighted and usually repeated, it is a head case.

SORRY OP: I cross posted in error.. I'll step out and let you get back to what it should be. Sorry for the diversion.

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[Switchbarrel]

Hi Calgunners,

Wanted to get some advice on what scope parameters would be best for bench shooting from 100 - 300 yards.

Magnification?
4-16x50 or 6-25x50

FFP or SFP?
For mainly paper precision at 100-200 yards. Then at times 300 yards.

Mil or Moa?

Reticle Image
What's a good reticle image for what I'm trying to do?

Thank you,
BLooDRuSHx4

Reading this as, wanting to shoot the smallest groups possible at these distances from some sort of rest(s)/bipod.

In that case, power is your friend. As the saying goes, "aim small, miss small". You need the power to be able to hold to one side or the other of a bullet hole sometimes (if your rifle's capable of that kind of accuracy). Seeing .22 bullet holes at 300 is difficult, if not impossible, with low power scopes. I turn my targets around, shooting at the backside, where I place aiming dots. Much easier to see bullet holes in the white & make adjustments with a high powered scope. Still difficult if there's a lot of mirage.

Low powered scope recommendations are all back-asswards for benchrest shooting. 99% of the rifles on the line at a Benchrest shooting match will have fixed 36x, 40x, 45x, 50x scopes. Someone may have the 36-55x March if weight permits. Only using as an example for higher scope power, not recommending a fixed power one in this case.

Seems most replying here have never been to a 100-200 yard benchrest match. Not necessarily to compete but, to be able to reply to this question with some knowledge of what is actually used for what I believe to be YOUR STATED INTENT. If you're happy just hitting a paper plate, by all means, go get a low powered scope. You just need a crosshair to aim with in that case.

No Mil-dots, Christmas tree reticles for this type of shooting. A fine crosshair or crosshair with small dot (1/8 moa dot or smaller) are perfect for this type of shooting.

Second focal plane Nightforce 12-42 X 56 with crosshairs or NP-2DD reticle. They run $1000 used and get the Benchrest models not the NXS version. And forget about mils in the accuracy world everything in MOA.

Great scope for what the OP states he wants to do.

For those not familiar with bench shooting you want all the power you can get for 100-300 yards and you want a variable so you can dial down in heavy mirage at the longer ranges.

Exactly!

OP said nothing about competition shooting, or wanting to shoot out 1000 yds.

He wants to punch paper at 100-300 yds...and shoot some steel @ 600 yds

Doesn't matter if he goes MOA or MIL...3x-6x will work on the bottom end and 15x-25x on the top end is plenty...44, 50, or 56 objective...depends on his budget.

Doesn't need to be about competition. Although he hasn't actually clarified what his personal goal is for groups, a high powered scope is much better if small groups from a rest is his ultimate goal. Offhand silhouettes, yeah, give me a 4-16x, 5-25x or so.

8-32x would be my recommendation for a "minimum" scope power for shooting groups from 100-600 yards.

Ignoring the more Benchrest specific fixed powered scopes for a moment, if you'll look around, Leupold has their 7-42x, Sightron 8-32x & 10-50x, Nightforce 12-42x & 15-55x, Vortex 15-60x, etc. All marketed as F-Class/Target scopes.

-Rick

[socal147]

Why would a link to the precision rifle forum cover bench scope questions?

Good general info on scope questions and shooting in general. Another resource for info. No other reasons than that.

[longrange1]

Reading this as, wanting to shoot the smallest groups possible at these distances from some sort of rest(s)/bipod.

In that case, power is your friend. As the saying goes, "aim small, miss small". You need the power to be able to hold to one side or the other of a bullet hole sometimes (if your rifle's capable of that kind of accuracy). Seeing .22 bullet holes at 300 is difficult, if not impossible, with low power scopes. I turn my targets around, shooting at the backside, where I place aiming dots. Much easier to see bullet holes in the white & make adjustments with a high powered scope. Still difficult if there's a lot of mirage.

Low powered scope recommendations are all back-asswards for benchrest shooting. 99% of the rifles on the line at a Benchrest shooting match will have fixed 36x, 40x, 45x, 50x scopes. Someone may have the 36-55x March if weight permits. Only using as an example for higher scope power, not recommending a fixed power one in this case.

Seems most replying here have never been to a 100-200 yard benchrest match. Not necessarily to compete but, to be able to reply to this question with some knowledge of what is actually used for what I believe to be YOUR STATED INTENT. If you're happy just hitting a paper plate, by all means, go get a low powered scope. You just need a crosshair to aim with in that case.

No Mil-dots, Christmas tree reticles for this type of shooting. A fine crosshair or crosshair with small dot (1/8 moa dot or smaller) are perfect for this type of shooting.



Great scope for what the OP states he wants to do.



Exactly!



Doesn't need to be about competition. Although he hasn't actually clarified what his personal goal is for groups, a high powered scope is much better if small groups from a rest is his ultimate goal. Offhand silhouettes, yeah, give me a 4-16x, 5-25x or so.

8-32x would be my recommendation for a "minimum" scope power for shooting groups from 100-600 yards.

Ignoring the more Benchrest specific fixed powered scopes for a moment, if you'll look around, Leupold has their 7-42x, Sightron 8-32x & 10-50x, Nightforce 12-42x & 15-55x, Vortex 15-60x, etc. All marketed as F-Class/Target scopes.

-Rick

ALL THIS RIGHT HERE^^^AS WELL AS WHAT LYNN IS SAYING!!

no disrespect meant...but you guys that think a 10-14 0r even 20X scope is a good(or good enough)power/scope for benchrest at 100-300yds have obviously not shot much benchrest.

HIGH variable power,fine adjustment,thin reticle SFP scopes equate to higher scores on paper...this coming from a guy that will not buy a SFP scope...but most of my shooting is tactical.

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No benchrest shoots with iron sights?

[diver160651]

Scope For Bench Shooting

Is the real question more often than not; often masked by the OP's lack of knowledge and framing the questions incorrectly?

While I have been to only a few benchrest competitions, it appears to me the sport is not exploding with new shooters looking to enter Benchrest/F competition, with the average shooter age fairly old. There is no question that many good things came from it. But, not all things transfer well to field shooting and several other types of competitions.

SFP vrs FFP, isn't about the mechanics of the design, nor the circular angle (MOA, IPHY or MRAD) of measurement they use, or the subtention style. However, sands a very few applications, if you have subtentions, SFP, doesn't make much sense. Also left out of most of the discussions are the differences between short range, long range and ELR best choices were max power really doesn't help.

It is true, that many people I've run into have a subtentioned scope but have no idea how to use it properly, or gravity has taken them to a BCD model that's is never going to be accurate. Sadly, some buy them with a reticle style outside what their shooting needs are, or what partners have. Then another camp do not have the partners or don't take the time to learn reticle holds and practice communication, latter is the true key to FFP.

Of course the videos and marketing focus only on the mechanical differences, not on reticle options nor the true value of learning how to think, eat and sleep in scope units with everyone speaking the exact same language.

So maybe the real questions are what might I use X for in the future?




DIY ELR Target Cam with DVR - well proven 2000m+ 2 camera, multiple monitors - link below

https://forum.snipershide.com/forum/sniper%C2%92s-hide[emoji768]-forward-operating-base/sniper-s-hide-d-i-y/6283948-elr-target-camera-2-camera-system-with-integrated-dvr#post6291944

[JMP]

Diver
The "E" stands for Extreme to Bryan Litz.

BS

http://www.mcmillanfirearms.com/elr-training/

https://surgeonrifles.com/product/extended-long-range-course/

[LynnJr]

Diver
I agree with what your saying but those with actual experience here all agree that 100-300 yard Bench shooting is done better with MOA High Magnification and SFP and those are the most predominant scopes in use today.
SwitchBarrel is a Benchrest National Champion for those that don't know him.

Had the original poster said I need a scope for my 223 and will be doing load work up off of a bench but will mainly be using it instead of a laser rangefinder the recommendation might change.
At our competitions nobody is using there FFP for rangefinding and they all have them.

[diver160651]

Scope For Bench Shooting

Diver

I agree with what your saying but those with actual experience here all agree that 100-300 yard Bench shooting is done better with MOA High Magnification and SFP and those are the most predominant scopes in use today.

SwitchBarrel is a Benchrest National Champion for those that don't know him.



Had the original poster said I need a scope for my 223 and will be doing load work up off of a bench but will mainly be using it instead of a laser rangefinder the recommendation might change.

Gotcha 100% on the BR thing, duplex reticle, SFP, high power for BR/F, as well as SwitchBarrels confirmation of those disciplines. I would not even raise a eyebrow if I had actually read the title to the thread.

Again, my apologies for going from your other post and somehow thinking I was in the same "Snacker RAFFEL" thread.. (another funky name thing people seem to really glorify, (like extreme), then cheap out by not understanding what a "precession field gun" encompasses, nor the thinking behind the systems.

FWIW, your example of "range finding" is the least important thing an FFP does. This is part of the problem with the discussions and general understanding FFPs.

Anyway, my continued reposts are as much not intended to help the OP, but more to make sure the off topic suggestions on SFP vrs FFP at the very least, was somewhat clearer in that the true difference is much larger picture than range finding or the videos posted offer.

Edited to add: No intention of this is to sound argumentative or condescending to anyone.. I acknowledge my communication via the keyboard is poor at best.

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^snipershide invalid page?

[diver160651]

Scope For Bench Shooting

^snipershide invalid page?

I think my Tapatalk app just spaced out.

NOTE: Images etc do not display correctly in the Tapatalk app. it is best viewed via the computer. But if your interested in a multi-cam Target cam for ELR as a do-it-yourself set up; my signature below should take you to the correct page. Same name there for transparency.

For those that might not know. The Hide has been thru many server changes it is hard to keep track. We've lost data and or had to rejoin over the years so it is harder to know who has been there sense when.

The old Hide was completely very self-correcting, BS and miss information didn't go far and many users were weeded out. That part I miss, as well as some of the real shooters who around the Scout migration or migration back to Frank's control, left. You'll generally will not see as much on something like "loop hole" shooting, but it is a much kinder gentler place now..

However, you'll still you find a bit better info on curve fitting, ELR or the more technical spread in with the muddy stuff.

https://forum.snipershide.com/forum/sniper%C2%92s-hide%C2%AE-forward-operating-base/sniper-s-hide-d-i-y/6283948-elr-target-camera-2-camera-system-with-integrated-dvr

[LynnJr]

Diver
I hate to hijack the thread but what are the advantages you are seeing with the FFP since the Vortex video doesn't say anything other than rangefinding and using the subtensions without having to change the power?
Do you think the reticle getting larger is a plus?
What makes the FFP the scope to get in your opinion that the videos don't show?