Taurus curve .380

[Hoshnasi]

I seriously cannot believe that someone on this forum doesn't understand why a pocket pistol needs to be in a holster

Argumentum ad populum, bandwagon fallacy. You're implying that everyone, or most on this forum agrees with you (consensus) so I'm wrong.

The rest of your examples are anecdotal and could happen with an in pocket holster still. Sure, I admit that with a holstered pocket pistol NDs are less likely, but the likelyhood between the curve and say an LCP in a holster having an ND is probably within the sample error rate, we'll never prove either of our points but that is my opinion. The likelihood is negligible.

Have fun with your impending ND.

Where to start?

Appeal to my sense of shame?
Appeal to fear?

We disagree here and that is OK, but your implications are that this gun and everything it was designed to do is inherently wrong which I think is naive.

[Merc1138]

Argumentum ad populum, bandwagon fallacy. You're implying that everyone, or most on this forum agrees with you (consensus) so I'm wrong.

The rest of your examples are anecdotal and could happen with an in pocket holster still. Sure, I admit that with a holstered pocket pistol NDs are less likely, but the likelyhood between the curve and say an LCP in a holster having an ND is probably within the sample error rate, we'll never prove either of our points but that is my opinion. The likelihood is negligible.



Where to start?

Appeal to my sense of shame?
Appeal to fear?

We disagree here and that is OK, but your implications are that this gun and everything it was designed to do is inherently wrong which I think is naive.

And I call your nonsense "Community college ad bull****um"

Your entire argument is based on the idea of NOT using a holster for a pistol carried in your pocket. Even after having it explained to you with more than one reason why, instead of bothering to try and continue the discussion you pull out a bunch of latin from a community college level college class.

If you don't want to carry a pocket pistol with a proper holster, yet leave a round chambered, fine. Knowing the latin terms for some fallacies doesn't counteract how dumb it is to carry a semi auto pistol with a chambered round and no holster, in your pocket. This isn't some general consensus decided upon by safety gurus, it's avoiding an ND.

And the examples I gave do NOT happen with a pocket holster if used properly, assuming the holster is in a serviceable condition(there are NDs that have happened with guns in holsters... due to people failing to maintain or replace worn holsters).

[Hoshnasi]

And I call your nonsense "Community college ad bull****um"

Its not nonsense, its calling out your lazy arguments as fallacy in other words they shouldn't be listened to and aren't worth the time.

Your entire argument is based on the idea of NOT using a holster for a pistol carried in your pocket. Even after having it explained to you with more than one reason why, instead of bothering to try and continue the discussion you pull out a bunch of latin from a community college level college class.

The gun comes with a clip, your claim after never seeing it in person, holding it or trying it... the clip is bull****

The gun is entirely rounded, the rear of the trigger is shielded to not get stuck on clothes; it was designed to pocket carry. Your claim, pocket carrying guns is bad, we don't do that here on Calguns. "Enjoy your ND".

If you don't want to carry a pocket pistol with a proper holster, yet leave a round chambered, fine. Knowing the latin terms for some fallacies doesn't counteract how dumb it is to carry a semi auto pistol with a chambered round and no holster, in your pocket. This isn't some general consensus decided upon by safety gurus, it's avoiding an ND.

Without going adnauseum with quotes from online publications, I'll just use the Guns and Ammo article:

This .380 ACP pistol is also heavily radiused at every corner, producing a carry gun that prints discreetly in your pocket or waistline like a smartphone. That’s right, no holster needed.

PLEASE, go open a gun company because your sage like wisdom in knowing all things gun is being wasted arguing with an armchair master-debater such as myself.

in short, Taurus designed the damn gun to be pocket carried WITHOUT A HOLSTER. Go handle the thing before you speak with these absolutist claims.

And the examples I gave do NOT happen with a pocket holster if used properly, assuming the holster is in a serviceable condition(there are NDs that have happened with guns in holsters... due to people failing to maintain or replace worn holsters).

Here were your examples:

Empty pockets do not protect the trigger. Empty pockets do not prevent clothing from snagging in the trigger guard. Carrying a semi auto with a round in the chamber and nothing keeping things out of the trigger guard is dumb. That's why pocket holsters exist.

Thats all you gave, two examples.

1. clothing gets snagged in trigger guard. The Curve was rounded for smooth retrieval, why would it gather clothing?

2. Carrying a semi auto with a round in the chamber and nothing keeping things out of the trigger guard is dumb.

This is why I call out fallacies. Because stupid arguments hurt us all. You're trying to make a point, but there is no meat to any of this.

Do you have the actual numbers of people who ND with and without a pocket holster? Are the differences even worth mentioning? Without them or handling the curve your point is CONJECTURE, yet you want your words to be treated as gospel.

[Merc1138]

Its not nonsense, its calling out your lazy arguments as fallacy in other words they shouldn't be listened to and aren't worth the time.



The gun comes with a clip, your claim after never seeing it in person, holding it or trying it... the clip is bull****

The gun is entirely rounded, the rear of the trigger is shielded to not get stuck on clothes; it was designed to pocket carry. Your claim, pocket carrying guns is bad, we don't do that here on Calguns. "Enjoy your ND".




Without going adnauseum with quotes from online publications, I'll just use the Guns and Ammo article:



PLEASE, go open a gun company because your sage like wisdom in knowing all things gun is being wasted arguing with an armchair master-debater such as myself.

in short, Taurus designed the damn gun to be pocket carried WITHOUT A HOLSTER. Go handle the thing before you speak with these absolutist claims.



Here were your examples:



Thats all you gave, two examples.

1. clothing gets snagged in trigger guard. The Curve was rounded for smooth retrieval, why would it gather clothing?

2. Carrying a semi auto with a round in the chamber and nothing keeping things out of the trigger guard is dumb.

This is why I call out fallacies. Because stupid arguments hurt us all. You're trying to make a point, but there is no meat to any of this.

Do you have the actual numbers of people who ND with and without a pocket holster? Are the differences even worth mentioning? Without them or handling the curve your point is CONJECTURE, yet you want your words to be treated as gospel.

You're quoting Guns & Ammo? The magazine that relies on paid advertisements to make revenue? You must think the R51 was amazing then.

I also never stated anything about snagging while retrieving the firearm from your pocket. Where did that even come from? It has to get INTO your pocket. You don't carry, do you? I'm not even asking if you carry for the sake of pointing out your lack of experience carrying, I'm pointing it out because you have somehow failed to grasp the obvious issue of how you get the firearm into a position to be carried in the first place. Somehow the idea of shoving a loaded and chambered gun into your pocket has totally slipped your mind. This is why it's not the fallacy you hope it would be, you simply don't know wtf you're talking about, with your apparent knowledge on the subject coming from marketing drivel on the manufacturer's website and a gun rag.

The funniest thing is, if you had even bothered to take in all of the information available from the G&A article, you'd have at least pointed out the hokey plastic trigger cover they have pictured, that could could actually argue does most of the job of a pocket holster. But you didn't even do that, you just glanced at it without even going through all of what was presented.

What's the latin phrase for "failed to read his entire cited source?"

Oh, and before you try and pull a "well there you go, it has a clip on trigger cover", how do you plan on dealing with that one handed? Hold on, I'll give a possible answer for that one too since your mind is probably spinning as you re-read the article you mentioned. Since the lanyard appears to be easy to replace, you could make one long enough to run through a belt loop or around a belt that would catch the cover while removing it from your pocket.

This is all of course while you're claiming that I'm using lazy arguments, when I have to read your source and point out the obvious information that you missed, for you.

[Hoshnasi]

I also never stated anything about snagging while retrieving the firearm from your pocket. Where did that even come from?

You claimed....

Empty pockets do not protect the trigger. Empty pockets do not prevent clothing from snagging in the trigger guard. Carrying a semi auto with a round in the chamber and nothing keeping things out of the trigger guard is dumb. That's why pocket holsters exist.

You chose not to clarify insertion or removal. So I focused on removal.

If you're implying now that ALL of the above was strictly for the insertion of the pistol, then how do you account for the light and laser assembly which is rounded and fully covers the trigger? How many guns LIKE THE CURVE have you placed in your pocket, if the answer is none, then how can you make such absolutist claims? Please cite a similar example sans pocket holster.

It has to get INTO your pocket. You don't carry, do you? I'm not even asking if you carry for the sake of pointing out your lack of experience carrying, I'm pointing it out because you have somehow failed to grasp the obvious issue of how you get the firearm into a position to be carried in the first place. Somehow the idea of shoving a loaded and chambered gun into your pocket has totally slipped your mind. This is why it's not the fallacy you hope it would be, you simply don't know wtf you're talking about, with your apparent knowledge on the subject coming from marketing drivel on the manufacturer's website and a gun rag.

I carry at my home and on my property daily. I won't claim that it means much other than I put the gun in and out of pocket daily and walk around doing my daily duties.

With that said, you've now taken time to define that you were referring to putting the gun in your pocket. You want me to believe that the addition of a pocket holster for a pocket gun makes the insertion of a handgun into a pocket easier/safer? Poppycock.

I haven't had any difficulty placing any of my pocket guns into my front or rear pockets without a pocket holster. The pocket is empty and it goes in while I cup the side covering the trigger and avoiding the barrel. If anything, all my pocket holsters are HARDER to insert when the gun is inside -which is how all pocket holsters should be placed in a pocket, with the gun inside- as the holsters are highly textured to keep the gun in position, which is a good reason to pocket holster carry.

I'm not against pocket holsters, far from it. I'm just trying to give the designers of the curve the benefit of the doubt and actually HOLD the thing before I cast it out like you've decided to do.

To play devils advocate, how did MILLIONS of people throughout the life of the small handguns do it day in and day out before the pocket holster became popular (a recent trend I might add)?

The funniest thing is, if you had even bothered to take in all of the information available from the G&A article, you'd have at least pointed out the hokey plastic trigger cover they have pictured, that could could actually argue does most of the job of a pocket holster. But you didn't even do that, you just glanced at it without even going through all of what was presented.

I didn't include it because I agree its hokey, I agree the tether is dumb and possibly a safety risk. Sorry to rob you of your "checkmate" moment.

What's the latin phrase for "failed to read his entire cited source?"

Its "assume". As in your assumption that I didn't know the trigger cover existed rather than I thought the trigger cover was stupid and not worth diluting my point.

Oh, and before you try and pull a "well there you go, it has a clip on trigger cover", how do you plan on dealing with that one handed? Hold on, I'll give a possible answer for that one too since your mind is probably spinning as you re-read the article you mentioned. Since the lanyard appears to be easy to replace, you could make one long enough to run through a belt loop or around a belt that would catch the cover while removing it from your pocket.

Those clips have existed for years, I've never liked them and yes, I've tried them with Glocks. Why would I in the course of taking about a gun that I feel brings new things to the discussion would I use something already on the market to defend it.

Further had I used it in defense of my point, you could easily reply "They make those clips for the LCP, so its still thinner."

This is all of course while you're claiming that I'm using lazy arguments, when I have to read your source and point out the obvious information that you missed, for you.

Only in this reply of our back and forth have you NOT used a fallacy to make a point. KUDOS! IDK what is difficult about this. Using fallacies is a lazy mans way of making an argument and the sign of a weak point. You don't need community college or a debate club to know that.

[Merc1138]

You claimed....



You chose not to clarify insertion or removal. So I focused on removal.

If you're implying now that ALL of the above was strictly for the insertion of the pistol, then how do you account for the light and laser assembly which is rounded and fully covers the trigger?

I chose not to clarify, because it's obvious to anyone using any sense, that to put a gun in your pocket, you need to insert it.

The light and laser assembly does not cover the trigger.If you mean adds material to what would normally be a trigger guard, then yes. But that assembly does not cover the trigger.

I'm not going to bother reading or replying to the rest of your nonsense. You've already proven you don't know what you're talking about, call others lazy while failing to read your own sources, and now you're just a troll with that nonsense about focusing on removing the firearm from your pocket.

If you aren't a troll, you are an ND waiting to happen, and hopefully that round only goes through your leg and not anyone else. It takes a special kind of person to be ignorant enough to try and argue with "I'm playing devil's advocate"(ie: trolling) to try and explain away a lack of using a holster. If you aren't trolling, then you're simply one of the most ignorant people I've come across on this forum. Either way, it's not worth my time to continue discussing this with you, since you've plainly shown the world just how special you can be.

[Hoshnasi]

I'm not going to bother reading or replying to the rest of your nonsense. You've already proven you don't know what you're talking about, call others lazy while failing to read your own sources, and now you're just a troll with that nonsense about focusing on removing the firearm from your pocket.

If you aren't a troll, you are an ND waiting to happen, and hopefully that round only goes through your leg and not anyone else. It takes a special kind of person to be ignorant enough to try and argue with "I'm playing devil's advocate"(ie: trolling) to try and explain away a lack of using a holster. If you aren't trolling, then you're simply one of the most ignorant people I've come across on this forum. Either way, it's not worth my time to continue discussing this with you, since you've plainly shown the world just how special you can be.

Your point: "My way is the best way, because everyone on Calguns agrees with me and no one will ever make anything new that could possibly be different. Everyone who doesn't agree with me is dangerous and/or ignorant."

This pretty much sums up our discussion. A gun you've never handled is wrong and anyone who chooses to pocket carry without a holster WILL shoot themselves or others at some point. Yours is ridiculous absolutist alarmist talk.

When posed with an honest question, "how did people pocket carry without holsters?" I get accused of being a troll.

I'll bet that most people who pocket carry a handgun do so without a holster and much like everyone else who carries we never hear about it. But that's no excuse not to shame them right Merc?

[ViPER395]

The Curve...

Saw this, thought i'd post it up. Can't wait till this makes the CA Safety list:

http://www.alloutdoor.com/2014/11/18/taurus-curve-contoured-wearable-pistol/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_content=2014-11-22&utm_campaign=Weekly+Newsletter

[SocomM4]

Would bang.

[Cali-Shooter]

It looks like it was designed for people with curves.

Woman's gun perhaps?

[jimsguns]

Looks like a fancy MACE sprayer

[Cali-Shooter]

This was discovered when someone accidentally microwaved a KelTec.

[morrcarr67]

Dupe

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD

[ViPER395]

Apologies...

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1006204

[scootle]

do people really carry with just a belt/pocket clip and an exposed trigger?