If I move to California, should I try to make some money?

[limitdown]

STI frames!!!

x100

Stripped STI 2011 frames would sell like Hot Cakes in Cali
Just stay under the 5 per year limit

[Quiet]

Still up in the air about this? Seriously?

Heres the thing, intent.
This quoted post and the original post clearly show your intent to purchase these firearms solely for the purpose of resale.

To add on to this...

Intent is important.

CA laws allows new residents of CA to import in handguns that are not on or exempt from the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale as long at the new resident intends to keep it for persoanl use. [PC 17000(a)(7)]

CA laws mandate that any handgun imported into CA for sale, needs to be on or exempt the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale. [PC 32000(a)]

Therefore, if the new resident imports handgun(s) they do not intend to keep but to sell, those handguns need to be on or exempt from the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale.



Penal Code 17000
(a) As used in this part, until January 1, 2014, any reference to the term "personal firearm importer" shall be deemed to mean "personal handgun importer" and, on and after January 1, 2014, any reference to the term "personal handgun importer" shall be deemed to mean "personal firearm importer." A "personal handgun importer," until January 1, 2014, and commencing January 1, 2014, a "personal firearm importer" means an individual who meets all of the following criteria:
(1) The individual is not a person licensed pursuant to Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2 of Division 6 of Title 4.
(2) The individual is not a licensed manufacturer of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code.
(3) The individual is not a licensed importer of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(4) The individual is the owner of a firearm.
(5) The individual acquired that firearm outside of California.
(6) The individual moved into this state on or after January 1, 1998, in the case of a handgun, or in the case of a firearm that is not a handgun, on or after January 1, 2014, as a resident of this state.
(7) The individual intends to possess that handgun within this state on or after January 1, 1998, or in the case of a firearm that is not a handgun, he or she intends to possess that firearm within this state on or after January 1, 2014.
(8) The firearm was not delivered to the individual by a person licensed pursuant to Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2 of Division 6 of Title 4, who delivered that firearm following the procedures set forth in Section 27540 and Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2 of Division 6 of Title 4.
(9) The individual, while a resident of this state, had not previously reported ownership of that firearm to the Department of Justice in a manner prescribed by the department that included information concerning the individual and a description of the firearm.
(10) The firearm is not a firearm that is prohibited by any provision listed in Section 16590.
(11) The firearm is not an assault weapon.
(12) The firearm is not a machinegun.
(13) The person is 18 years of age or older.
(14) The firearm is not a .50 BMG rifle.
(15) The firearm is not a destructive device.

Penal Code 32000
(a) Commencing January 1, 2001, any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends any unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year.
(c) Violations of subdivision (a) are cumulative with respect to each handgun and shall not be construed as restricting the application of any other law. However, an act or omission punishable in different ways by this section and other provisions of law shall not be punished under more than one provision, but the penalty to be imposed shall be determined as set forth in Section 654.

[El Toro]

This thread should just Go Away........

[curtru]

Sounds like you are getting great advice any way of you did do it you won't make enough to justify paying much off and if caught well I won't go there

[Chaos47]

If I could get anything from out of state that I cant get here it would be quality 1911 frames... Just saying.

STI frames!!!

x100

Stripped STI 2011 frames would sell like Hot Cakes in Cali
Just stay under the 5 per year limit

Unless the buyer of the frame is exempt from the Safe Handling Demonstration, thats not going to fly. (Or the shop magically happens to have a complete pistol of the same make and model on hand)

A PPT of a handgun still requires a Safe Handling Demonstration.
You can not complete a Safe Handling Demonstration on a frame.

So I'm sure your next thought is:
"But can't they just use a different 1911?"
The law says that it may be completed on a different handgun but it must be the exact same make and model handgun to do the test.

That does not mean for example if you are DROSing STI 1911 frame and they have a different 1911 on hand (say a Rock Island 1911) that you can do it with that one. It has to be the same make and model.

http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/firearms/forms/hscaff.pdf

CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
BUREAU OF FIREARMS
Safe Handling Demonstration
Affidavit
STATE OF CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
BOF 039 (Rev. 01/2012) PAGE 1 of 1
Declaration
On ,

performed the safe handling demonstration as required in California Penal Code sections 26850,
subdivisions (a) and (b), and 26853, and 26856, and 26859, with the handgun (or one of the
same make and model) referenced on Dealer Record of Sale (DROS) No.
under the supervision of .
Date (mm/dd/yyyy) Printed Name of Handgun Purchaser/Recipient
DROS Number
Printed Name of Certified Instructor Certified Instructor Number

California Penal Code Section 26850

(a) Except as authorized by the department, no firearms
dealer may deliver a handgun unless the recipient performs a safe
handling demonstration with that handgun.
(b) The safe handling demonstration shall commence with the
handgun unloaded and locked with the firearm safety device with which
it is required to be delivered, if applicable. While maintaining
muzzle awareness, that is, the firearm is pointed in a safe
direction, preferably down at the ground, and trigger discipline,
that is, the trigger finger is outside of the trigger guard and along
side of the handgun frame, at all times, the handgun recipient shall
correctly and safely perform the following:
(1) If the handgun is a semiautomatic pistol, the steps listed in
Section 26853.
(2) If the handgun is a double-action revolver, the steps listed
in Section 26856.
(3) If the handgun is a single-action revolver, the steps listed
in Section 26859.
(c) The recipient shall receive instruction regarding how to
render that handgun safe in the event of a jam.
(d) The firearms dealer shall sign and date an affidavit stating
that the requirements of subdivisions (a) and (b) have been met. The
firearms dealer shall additionally obtain the signature of the
handgun purchaser on the same affidavit. The firearms dealer shall
retain the original affidavit as proof of compliance with this
requirement.
(e) The recipient shall perform the safe handling demonstration
for a department-certified instructor.
(f) No demonstration shall be required if the dealer is returning
the handgun to the owner of the handgun.
(g) Department-certified instructors who may administer the safe
handling demonstration shall meet the requirements set forth in
subdivision (b) of Section 31635.
(h) The persons who are exempt from the requirements of
subdivision (a) of Section 31615, pursuant to Section 31700, are also
exempt from performing the safe handling demonstration.

California Penal Code Section 26853

To comply with Section 26850, a safe handling demonstration
for a semiautomatic pistol shall include all of the following steps:
(a) Remove the magazine.
(b) Lock the slide back. If the model of firearm does not allow
the slide to be locked back, pull the slide back, visually and
physically check the chamber to ensure that it is clear.
(c) Visually and physically inspect the chamber, to ensure that
the handgun is unloaded.
(d) Remove the firearm safety device, if applicable. If the
firearm safety device prevents any of the previous steps, remove the
firearm safety device during the appropriate step.
(e) Load one bright orange, red, or other readily identifiable
dummy round into the magazine. If no readily identifiable dummy round
is available, an empty cartridge casing with an empty primer pocket
may be used.
(f) Insert the magazine into the magazine well of the firearm.
(g) Manipulate the slide release or pull back and release the
slide.
(h) Remove the magazine.
(i) Visually inspect the chamber to reveal that a round can be
chambered with the magazine removed.
(j) Lock the slide back to eject the bright orange, red, or other
readily identifiable dummy round. If the handgun is of a model that
does not allow the slide to be locked back, pull the slide back and
physically check the chamber to ensure that the chamber is clear. If
no readily identifiable dummy round is available, an empty cartridge
casing with an empty primer pocket may be used.
(k) Apply the safety, if applicable.
(l) Apply the firearm safety device, if applicable. This
requirement shall not apply to an Olympic competition pistol if no
firearm safety device, other than a cable lock that the department
has determined would damage the barrel of the pistol, has been
approved for the pistol, and the pistol is either listed in
subdivision (b) of Section 32105 or is subject to subdivision (c) of
Section 32105.

Next I am sure someone will say "Well I have done it before!"

(a) Except as authorized by the department, no firearms
dealer may deliver a handgun unless the recipient performs a safe
handling demonstration with that handgun.

Your FFL is technically breaking the law (if you are not exempt from the HSC, see below).
They should not be transferring frames unless they have the same make and model on hand to do the demo.

A bare frame can not do many of the required steps outlined in CA PC 26853.

They are either not filling out the Safe Handling Demonstration
Affidavit or are filling it out illegally.

http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/firearms/forms/hscaff.pdf

I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the State of California that the forgoing is true and correct.

Now if you are exempt from the HSC you are exempt from the demo

http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/hscfaqs#a21

The exemptions to the safe handling demonstration include all the exemptions from the Handgun Safety Certificate requirement.

http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/hscfaqs#c6

http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/hscfaqs#c6
X01 = Special Weapons Permit Holder
X02 = Operation of Law Representative
X03 = Handgun being returned to the owner
X13 = FFL collector with COE (curio and relic handguns only)
X21 = Military - Active Duty
X22 = Military - Reserve
X25 = Military - Honorably Retired
X31 = Peace Officer - California - Active
X32 = Peace Officer - Federal - Active
X33 = Peace Officer - California - Honorably Retired
X34 = Peace Officer - California - Reserve
X35 = Peace Officer - Federal - Honorably Retired
X41 = Carry Concealed Weapon (CCW) Permit Holder
X81 = P.O.S.T. 832 PC (Firearms) Training
X91 = Particular and Limited Authority Peace Officers
X95 = Law Enforcement Service Gun to Family Member

[sigstroker]

Not illegal, and profit has nothing to do with it.

Expensive, yes.

You can sell 5 handguns per year without problem, according to California law, and that law was specifically created to keep individuals from being dealers.

The uninformed chicken stupidity is starting to catch up with this forum.

No kidding. ATF? How is the ATF going to know anything about it? Straw purchase? He would be selling them legally through an FFL.

[Cyc Wid It]

Yes, please price gouge us. Oh wait, we have other means of acquiring off roster guns.

You have to register all of those guns before you sell them...

[fivebyfive]

But the military pays for your education...they paid for mine. The Navy is paying for my sons and he's a Marine. Student loan debt may not be your real issue.

[HighLander51]

Hi everyone, in a few weeks I will be moving to California from Arizona as part of a military move. I am not sure if I will end up staying there,most likely I will stay an Arizona resident. In the event that I end up settling in Cali, however, is it a good idea to try to make a profit before I move? In other words, I was thinking I might purchase some off roster guns that would be very desirable in California, such as:

Ruger LCP (will buy a few of these)
Glock Gen 4 9mm
Springfield XDM 9mm
Springfield XDS 45
FNX 9
HK P30 or HK45
A KelTec if I can find one
EAA Witness
Beretta Nano
other guns I can't think of right now

Please understand that I am not trying to be greedy. I have massive debt right now from school and would also like to provide cool guns to people who can't get them. Do you guys think this is a good idea? Are there any guns you would like to see added to this list? Will this raise a red flag to the ATF? Thanks!

Buy all the STI 2011 frames you can get, and retire after you move here.

[nosoul]

OP, Please Don't move to Commiefornia if you look for firearms freedom.

We all wanted to move out of commiefornia, but couldn't because we have families and jobs here, we will remain fighting for our right.

[Meety Peety]

Do you really want to be another one of those guys in the FS section with a bunch of off list guns asking way too much.. sporting a thread with 32 bumps and a couple miscellaneous thread craps? Realistically, you don't even stand to make much profit, hardly worth the trouble and effort.

[Che762x39]

AZ and CA is two very different countries. Have you been to CA before? Most Californians have a negative vibe on guns here.

From my military experience in the USMC, NC was great for hunting and shooting. In CA I could not find hunters or shooters, everyone wnated to go to Hollywood and Disneyland.

YMMV

[Cyc Wid It]

Buy all the STI 2011 frames you can get, and retire after you move here.

How will you PPT these unless you have an identical model fully functional STI 2011 to do the safety test (and the dealer will allow you to substitute it)?

[Saym14]

How will you PPT these unless you have an identical model fully functional STI 2011 to do the safety test (and the dealer will allow you to substitute it)?

dealer can have you do the test on a similar gun.

[Chaos47]

Buy all the STI 2011 frames you can get, and retire after you move here.

dealer can have you do the test on a similar gun.

Seriously? Read my post above on that subject.

Similar does not cut it. The law says same make and model.