hypothetical question non roster

[Librarian]

I just same across this. Is it true you can do a PPT as a "gun show sale" and be legal for non roster?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...hlight=mscale5

That's the thing kemasa is talking about when he wrote

Also incorrect. A split-PPT is not currently viewed as legal, but it is where the seller either goes to a remote FFL or fills out the DROS worksheet and send this, along with a copy of their ID and the firearm, to another FFL. The CA DOJ says no to this, although it is rumored that some FFLs will still do it.

[Cokebottle]

I just same across this. Is it true you can do a PPT as a "gun show sale" and be legal for non roster?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...hlight=mscale5

Not over gunbroker.

If the gun shipped to the FFL, it is NOT a PPT unless the FFL is willing to stick his neck out and risk a spanking on a DOJ audit doing a split-PPT.

And the problem with that is the gun would have to go back to the seller for him to initiate DROS at his end of the "split".

As it stands, you have one option....
Get hired by your local LEA.

If the FFL the gun is at has an 07, and is willing to do so, they might be able to do a single shot/single action conversion. If they are not an 07, they cannot do this.

[moooboy]

lets say the revolver(cant be single shot) is from a calgun member. Can it be transferred if he/she sends it directly to a FFL in another part of the state as a "gun show transfer"
Can you D/L a dros form for the seller to send? if so where?

[zfields]

lets say the revolver(cant be single shot) is from a calgun member. Can it be transferred if he/she sends it directly to a FFL in another part of the state as a "gun show transfer"
Can you D/L a dros form for the seller to send? if so where?

It would have to be a split PPT, which is very, very hard to find FFLs to do.

[Cokebottle]

lets say the revolver(cant be single shot) is from a calgun member. Can it be transferred if he/she sends it directly to a FFL in another part of the state as a "gun show transfer"
Can you D/L a dros form for the seller to send? if so where?

No.

No.

No.



If a gun is shipped to the buyer's FFL, it is an FFL transfer and is subject to the roster unless the FFL is an 07 and is willing and able to convert it to a roster-exempt form (revolver can be single-action converted).

A PPT is ONLY ONLY ONLY ONLY applicable when both the buyer and seller are present at the FFL at the same time.

You have only two legal options... Offer to pay the seller's gas or airplane ticket and a night in a hotel to come to your FFL where you can execute a PPT.
That PPT will be $35 total, so it will save you as much as $100 in FFL transfer fees. Might be worth it.
Otherwise, your other option is to arrange for someone who is roster-exempt (a cop) to buy it from you... He hands you the cash and goes to the FFL to complete the transfer.

[Cokebottle]

It would have to be a split PPT, which is very, very hard to find FFLs to do.

And too late anyways... the seller has already shipped.
Doing a split PPT would require the gun to be shipped BACK to the seller, and both the seller and the buyer would need to locate an FFL that is willing to do the split-PPT.


Seriously... drop it. There is no point in confusing the OP with talk of a split PPT. Even if it were 100% legal, it can't be done with the situation as it currently stands. The gun is already at the buyer's FFL, the seller did not initiate the transfer on his end.

[moooboy]

so what about the "gun show transfer" according to the post i linked. they do it all the time

[Cokebottle]

so what about the "gun show transfer" according to the post i linked. they do it all the time

That thread was from 2006.

Split-PPT were commonly done 5 years ago.
FFLS have since been told by the DOJ to not do them.

[billybob_jcv]

Clearly, it made way too much sense to allow a person in Northern California to be able to conveniently and easily sell a legally acquired off-roster gun to a person in Southern California - so the state had to put a stop to it...

[moooboy]

Clearly, it made way too much sense to allow a person in Northern California to be able to conveniently and easily sell a legally acquired off-roster gun to a person in Southern California - so the state had to put a stop to it...

Ahhh ok
thanks

[kemasa]

I'm going by what the Wiki says:

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Buying_and_selling_firearms_in_California#As_implemented.2C_both_parties_must_be_present_at_the_transferring_FFL_at_the_same_time_to_initiate_the_transaction

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Buying_and_selling_firearms_in_California#As_implemented.2C_both_parties_must_be_California_residents

I agree that I screwed-up the definition of split-PPT transaction.

Sorry, but the wiki was wrong and has now been updated. You can't believe everything that you read on the Internet :-).

As implemented, both parties must be present at the transferring FFL at the same time to initiate the transaction

"at the same time" is incorrect, as shown by consignment sales which are processed as a PPT. Also, if you read the paragraph under it, it is talking about split-PPTs, which makes it a bit confusing.

The main point of the second one is that the seller has to have a CA ID, which is correct, and the person can be a part time resident. I am not sure that you can have a CA ID with an out of state address.

Perhaps Librarian can get it updated.

[kemasa]

A PPT is ONLY ONLY ONLY ONLY applicable when both the buyer and seller are present at the FFL at the same time.

Please show me where it is required that the buyer and seller be present at the same time. Consignment sales of non-roster firearm are done by the seller filling out a DROS worksheet. The same is true for PPTs, but the main requirement is that both go to the same FFL.

If what you said was true, then there would be MANY consignment sales which have been done in violation of the law.

[keenkeen]

Please show me where it is required that the buyer and seller be present at the same time. Consignment sales of non-roster firearm are done by the seller filling out a DROS worksheet. The same is true for PPTs, but the main requirement is that both go to the same FFL.

If what you said was true, then there would be MANY consignment sales which have been done in violation of the law.

I was thinking the same thing,...but when someone uses large bold font sizes, underlining & colors in a post I always take what they are saying as Gospel.

[billybob_jcv]

Sorry, but the wiki was wrong and has now been updated. You can't believe everything that you read on the Internet :-).



"at the same time" is incorrect, as shown by consignment sales which are processed as a PPT. Also, if you read the paragraph under it, it is talking about split-PPTs, which makes it a bit confusing.

The main point of the second one is that the seller has to have a CA ID, which is correct, and the person can be a part time resident. I am not sure that you can have a CA ID with an out of state address.

Perhaps Librarian can get it updated.

I am proud to have played my (unwitting) part in ensuring the wiki is accurate!

[Cokebottle]

Depending on the gun, some revolvers can be Single Shot Exempted.

Reading your sentence, I don't know for sure if you are saying, "this particular revolver can't be SSE".

Or if you are saying, "because it is not a magazine fed pistol it can't be SSE".

Revolvers generally wouldn't fall under single shot... They would fall under single action.

Single action is actually much easier to pass because, IIRC, the dimension requirements are a minimum 3" barrel and 7" OAL, unlike the single-shot requirement of a 10" OAL and 6" barrel.
Depending on the design of the revolver, the single action conversion can be done very easily at minimal cost.