Do you compete, why not?

[IPSICK]

Disagree. This mentality would also hold that you should never shoot slow, precision fire at a static line range since that isn't how you would fight.

Competition is NOT combat training, and teaches some very bad things if you view it as such. But what it does do is act as a crucible (for those who take it seriously) that will help perfect weapon mechanics (draws, sight acquisition, transitions, reloads, malfunction recovery, etc.). It also is one of the few sources of being able to regularly include stress while using a firearm. But it's not training.

Nothing wrong with shooting competition. But if you carry a gun as part of your job or for self-defense, you need to balance it with real (and preferably good) tactical training.

This is a very good but brief summary of the need for balance between training and competition.

One thing I have to add is that tactical training classes aren't the best at teaching a person gun handling. Most newbies and amateurs don't get enough gun handling experience. So tactical training is never as effective for them as it could be. On the other hand, if someone were to mistakenly do what they do in competitions in a life-death situation that could be bad news.

[HighLander51]

IPSCIK, One thing I have to add is that tactical training classes aren't the best at teaching a person gun handling. Most newbies and amateurs don't get enough gun handling experience.

Yes, and the mechanics of shooting is a perishable skill. I can tell the difference for even a one week abscence. Can't imaginge only trying to shoot a few times a year.

if someone were to mistakenly do what they do in competitions in a life-death situation that could be bad news.

I just don't buy into that. Most of the guys I shoot USPSA and 3 Gun with are cops. They are regularly involved in shootings outside of competition, They know the difference and don't seem to have any problem going back and forth. They just know that competition is about gun mechanics, and doing it as fast and accurately as possible. It has nothing to do with tactics.

[JaeOne3345]

Knowing strategies in a hostile situation is one thing, but I am sorry, people who put down competition absolutely cannot argue with a shooter who puts thousands of shots down range each month. There is no substitute for trigger time.

I do not understand why people just do not /can't do both. There are quite a few accomplished LE shooters out at the Norco running gun, who do classes, but are also extremely gifted when shooting uspsa/ipsc style. Everyone out there knows the difference. USPSA/IPSC has it's own rules for the game. That is understood.

Shooting matches gives you an affordable way to put a few hundred down range each weekend for an affordable price. I highly doubt people are training in tactical classes every weekend.

Be all around. Enroll in your tactical classes when they come around, and in between those, shoot competition matches. I don't see what is so hard about that. I have plenty of friends who do exactly that. And they do great in both environments. They know the difference.

[HighLander51]

Knowing strategies in a hostile situation is one thing, but I am sorry, people who put down competition absolutely cannot argue with a shooter who puts thousands of shots down range each month. There is no substitute for trigger time.

I do not understand why people just do not /can't do both. There are quite a few accomplished LE shooters out at the Norco running gun, who do classes, but are also extremely gifted when shooting uspsa/ipsc style. Everyone out there knows the difference. USPSA/IPSC has it's own rules for the game. That is understood.

Shooting matches gives you an affordable way to put a few hundred down range each weekend for an affordable price. I highly doubt people are training in tactical classes every weekend.

Be all around. Enroll in your tactical classes when they come around, and in between those, shoot competition matches. I don't see what is so hard about that. I have plenty of friends who do exactly that. And they do great in both environments. They know the difference.

Hey, I found the quote button!!! Both my kids, Brian and Jae, have been bugging me about it. Might have to retire my old Nokia cell phone and upgrade to a 'smart' phone to keep up with these two tactical techincal geniuses.... Next thing they will be telling their old dad to get rid of the cathode ray tube tv and go LCD or plasma

[CSACANNONEER]

I've competed in metalic silloutte for several years back in the late 80's and early 90's. I've shot some IDPA matches through the years and I currently try to shoot at least one 1000 yard FCSA match a year. Why don't I do more? Money and time.

[TMC]

I'd like to start, but yeah, it's intimidating as heck when you're a newbie with zero formal training, who maybe shoots 5-6 times a year, competing against active duty military and police.

Trust me when I tell you the ex-military and police are the least of your worries at a match. These guys train only occasionally, the serious shooter is out at the range a couple days a weeks.

When ever one of these thread starts we hear from the people who feel they have to piss on the OP's parade by throwing out the "bad habits from competition" crap, and it is crap. Like one post above said, what you gain from competition far out weights any "bad habits" you may acquire. But hey, the smartest guy in the room can't help but pipe up.

I'm with Brian1979 for the most part. Its much easier to teach someone to hide, or scan or move to cover than it is to teach them to quickly and accurately use an handgun. I've never been in a gun fight and hope I never am but given my 10+ years of competition in all types of shooting with many different guns I think I have a better chance than the guy who has taken a bunch of training courses but has not put his skills to the test under some form of stress even if its in the form of a game. If bullets start flying in my direction I do not need training to know to get behind cover.

Why do I compete? Because its fun to shoot guns and more fun to shoot them at lots of targets other people set up.

[HighLander51]

TMC, I'm with Brian1979 for the most part. Its much easier to teach someone to hide

Brian got to be an expert at hiding at a young age. Used to catch him playing around with the reloader, and he knew if I got hold of him, I would whip his skinny butt. His favorite hiding places was under the crawl space at our first house. He would wedge himself in there and I would send in my shepard to drag his *** out. Today he is not so good at hiding, but is deathly afraid of big dogs.

But to be fair, I have made it up by showing him how to shoot really fast and accurate.

[Steyrlp10]

On a side note, no one has ever shot a perfect score in Bullseye during competition. It is hard, no doubt. When I did it in Sacramento, it was 20 yard indoor.

You will shoot great in practice but suck in competition. Happens to everyone. It's a mindset as well as a skill. Anyone who mocks Bullseye has obviously never fired a round in competition.

I highly recommend the NRA Qualification Bullseye Course for newbs. Just try it.

Watching some of the members of the USA Shooting Team do their thing makes it look easy -- for them!

[IPSICK]

IPSCIK, One thing I have to add is that tactical training classes aren't the best at teaching a person gun handling. Most newbies and amateurs don't get enough gun handling experience.

Yes, and the mechanics of shooting is a perishable skill. I can tell the difference for even a one week abscence. Can't imaginge only trying to shoot a few times a year.

if someone were to mistakenly do what they do in competitions in a life-death situation that could be bad news.

I just don't buy into that. Most of the guys I shoot USPSA and 3 Gun with are cops. They are regularly involved in shootings outside of competition, They know the difference and don't seem to have any problem going back and forth. They just know that competition is about gun mechanics, and doing it as fast and accurately as possible. It has nothing to do with tactics.

I did say "if". Like TMC said, you don't need to be taught to look for cover for the most part and it is definitely easier to teach than superior gun handling.

Btw, I'm pretty sure I don't want to be on the wrong end of a gunfight with TMC or Highlander.

[HighLander51]

IPSICK, Btw, I'm pretty sure I don't want to be on the wrong end of a gunfight with TMC or Highlander.

Thanks, but I am getting a little tired after 42 years of this stuff. My gig now is to pass it on to my kids, Brian and Jae. So far they have made their old dad really proud. Plus it's a big help as they don't fight as much now, although Brian still tugs on Jae's dreadlocks. It used to be the never ending "watch me Dad", no "watch me, Dad" Course, it was always easy to tell them apart....

TMC is the one to watch now, getting faster, and smarter with every passing match.

[JaeOne3345]

Yea, he pulled an Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt move and adopted me from some third world African country.

[626Tony]

i would but no $$

[tonelar]

I shoot CAS matches all the time. Your competition looks like it'd be terrific.

[HCz]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgdq1FBYTUE

This is the technic I was using and notice that even his pistol was pointing upwards. It is not about 180 degree rule, but rather about liability, and I understand that. But that doesn't mean I have to abide by outside of the games.

long post reduced

This is a good example of Game boy mentality I mentioned.

[sleepur606]

Mort, it used to be my 8 round limit in my .45 that held me back; that and I didn't want to be carrying six mags to still be competitive. However, a buddy of mine finally talked me into going to shoot at Raahauges for Steel Madness. If I don't blow a finger off, I may have to stop in to a Deadwood Boys shoot.