Improving Glock's pointability?

[Gryff]

You may be right about this, but no one is born with a gun in their hands. You have to develop the muscle memory by shooting it over and over again. Some people will never shoot as well with one grip angle vs. another. To me that has more to do with pre conceived notions, and previous experiences. A 1911 points very well for me but that is just because I have used them a lot in the past.

Actually, John Browning (all face Ogden and genuflect) believed that a certain grip angle (11 degrees?) was the most natural grip position possible for the human anatomy. That's what he gave the 1911, and a ton of other guns have either adopted the same angle or come really close.

But, again, my point is that you want a Glock, and you don't index it instinctively, then you need to practice. A lot. Not dissing the Glock, just reiterating that muscle memory isn't developed quickly, but it is important to have in the firearm you are betting your life on.

[OneSevenDeuce]

Actually, John Browning (all face Ogden and genuflect) believed that a certain grip angle (11 degrees?) was the most natural grip position possible for the human anatomy. That's what he gave the 1911, and a ton of other guns have either adopted the same angle or come really close.

But, again, my point is that you want a Glock, and you don't index it instinctively, then you need to practice. A lot. Not dissing the Glock, just reiterating that muscle memory isn't developed quickly, but it is important to have in the firearm you are betting your life on.

I don't necessarily believe that the 1911 grip angle is the most natural for human anatomy. But yeah, I get what you are saying. Muscle memory is developed after what? 10,000 repetitions? Not time to practice like the present.

[Anchors]

I took my new Gen 4 out and I'm not as good with it as I was before with the range's Gen 3. But I think I just need a little more trigger time. I really like Glocks though, they just take some getting used to.

[Gryff]

Being new to this great sport and the Firing Line range in Huntington Beach requires the targets to be at minimum of 21 feet...I put it at 21 feet . I know..short distance...I see and am amaze peoples pictures of BULLEYES at 25 YARDS..wowser. Without the dirty birds, shoot-N-C, or Visicolor targets..I wouldn't be able to see my shots (9mm, but can see .45) and make corrections.

Starting up this great sport late, I was just curious..Do people actually see each round placed on those PAPER targets? If I watch someone else fire or I am firing one round..look..fire another round....I can see the first 6-8 rounds, but anything beyond that..I can't tell where it's hitting.

I see other ppl shoot with paper targets and put holes in them, but after 10 rounds...can you actually see where every shot afterwards is going?

You should not try to see each shot. What you want to do is to pick a distinct spot on the target, and fire 3-6 rounds exactly at the same spot without trying to see where each individual shot went. Then look at how big your group is and how far off your point of aim it is.

Your concern should be less about where on the target the group is than how tight it is. A tighter grouping means that you are doing your job as the shooter. If the group is off your point of aim, then that is either a factor of how you are holding the gun or pulling the trigger, or how the gun's sights are situated. Those things can be fixed, but first you want to make sure that your target doesn't look like it was hit with a shotgun.

So, again, don't try to look at each individual shot.

oh--how do ppl measure their shots. Is this correct: measure the center of the two shots that are furthest apart...and you get "groupings?"

Mine's a rule of thumb...I want my shots to be no more than an handspan across, and centered around my point of aim. Even at closer ranges this width is still my goal because I'm upping my shot speed. But keep in mind that I focus on shooting practical pistol competitions. Bullseye shooters, hunters, silhouette shooters need to learn more precision than this. Just figure out what result you want and have fun practicing.

[Gryff]

Muscle memory is developed after what? 10,000 repetitions?

I've read that it's 3,000 repetitions before something is fully instinctive.

I took my new Gen 4 out and I'm not as good with it as I was before with the range's Gen 3. But I think I just need a little more trigger time. I really like Glocks though, they just take some getting used to.

Remember that the range's gun probably had so many rounds through it that the trigger was really smooth. Your brand-new one would actually have a fairly gritty trigger compared to it.

If you aren't afraid of taking your gun apart, you can do the "$.25 trigger job." It's actually pretty easy to do, and will improve your trigger pull (which may help your accuracy):

http://www.alpharubicon.com/mrpoyz/glock/

[OneSevenDeuce]

I've read that it's 3,000 repetitions before something is fully instinctive.

Yeah, either way it's a lot.

[viet4lifeOC]

Gryff,

WOWser ...dude---great info. Thanks...I'll try to put that into practice. Shoot 3-6 rounds then look .

[Shenaniguns]

Do you know how many self-defense (including LEOs) shootings actually had the shooter use their sights? It's a REALLY low number. Usually because the person either doesn't have the physical time to obtain a sight picture, or because they have never trained to obtain a sight picture under stress.

This why having the gun index naturally is actually a rather important factor in a self-defense gun.

I understand that, but what's natural at one time may not be natural the next and is why I either concentrated on shooting a P226 or 1911 for example and left my Glocks in the safe so I learned to index them properly. Too many people try and master different systems before they are half way decent with even one. For some reason switching from a Glock to an M&P is much easier to me than to a 1911 but with good practice and correct training it is possible to switch platforms with no issues.

[viet4lifeOC]

[QUOTE=Shenaniguns;4803574] why I either concentrated on shooting a P226 or 1911 for example and left my Glocks in the safe so I learned to index them properly. Too many people try and master different systems before they are half way decent with even one.QUOTE]

Dittos to that.

I bought a handgun a month and have: Sig Mosquito, RIA 1911, Sig P6, XD9, and in 5 days a Sig Pro2022. I decided to ditch the "I'll buy only one handgun" and just bought to my hearts content.

Until..one day..I realized "how am I going to rotate and get good trigger/range time with these handguns?" Seriously, didn't think ahead . So I chose the best gun for me in terms of feel, accuracy, and just all around FUN GUN to dedicate most of my time to mastering. I wanted a gun that would "grow" with me. Learning to shoot, HD, to speed reload, defensive/tactical class, CCW (if possible), etc.

So I decided to get the Les Baer TRS 1911. The price is high, but I am sure I'll be happy with it...finally feel like I have some focus. I'll still shoot the other guns for fun..to break the monotomy. I'll try to master these later...learning curve will be easier once I get the fundamentals down with the 1911 platform.

[stormy_clothing]

grip angle is not the same thing as grip width and palm swell - many glocks have different attributes in all of these - the g17 is alot different than the 21 and 21 sf everyones talking about grip angle and forgetting abut the rest.

[nicoroshi]

grip angle is not the same thing as grip width and palm swell - many glocks have different attributes in all of these - the g17 is alot different than the 21 and 21 sf everyones talking about grip angle and forgetting abut the rest.

Good point. I actually shoot my G21SF better than my G17. The wider grip just seems to fit my hand better, and it's easier for me to point. The distance from back of trigger to backstrap is the same for those two. The only difference (other than ammo used) is the width.

[cannon]

To the OP,

Gryff gave you steller advice on concentrating on the size of your groups. Aim at your bullseye and shoot 5 rounds and check the group. 5 more and check again. After you have a tight group then work on getting the group onto the bullseye.

As to the grip on your Glock. I had the same problem with mine in that my hand grip on the naked Glock grip did not put the shot group on the bullseye. I got a Hogue slip on grip and the world changed. With that grip the gun fits my hand and the sights come naturally to target. For $12.00 it may be worth a try to you.

Good luck and have fun.

P.S. If you ever get into the San Fernando Valley. Come over and we'll shoot at my club. We'll get you zero'd in in no time. Shoot me a PM if interested.

[glock7]

Aim the front sight higher than your other guns....

i noticed that when i shot the 19 @ the range, it took 50 rounds to figger that one out, now i got it locked down!