1911 Thoughts?

[chickenfried]

Well, ya know... the man is legit when Para Ordnance make's the OK list but S&W is crap.

[retired]

From my experience it seems like the old guys recommend Colt and Les Baer. I'm assuming this is because it's what they know and what's been around awhile. You need to do what I did. Find a local shop that actually carries several of these brands in stock so you can do your own comparison as I did. I have been fortunate enough to be able to check out in detail Wilsons, Nighthawks, Dan Wessons, Springfields(Including the infamous TRP PRO), Les Baers, Paras, Sigs, S&W's, Colts, Remington Rand, DGFM, RIA, and many more I'm sure I've already forgotten

First, why do you call the Pro model from the Custom Shop, "infamous."

Second, please enlighten us as to why you believe the S&W is not a real 1911.

I have a SA Milspec with a TRP barrel and a match bushing and I really like it. Bought it used and have never had a problem with it.

That said, hopefully in the next month or so, I intend to buy a higher grade of 1911, tho I don't know which brand or model yet other than I'd like stainless.

I have read all of the recent 1911 threads, including starting my own last month just to acquire as much input and knowledge from those who have different brands. Next, is to rent some and perhaps meet up with some Calgunners willing to let me handle and possibly shoot theirs (my ammo of course).

[Ducman]

Count the times you contradicted your self

You pay for the name.

As I stated I have a Kimber and Springfield TRP Operator. I only wish I would have sprung for a Nighthawk, or Wilson instead. You truly get what you pay for out of some of the top quality 1911's

+1 on Ed Brown... how in the world did I forget to mention them? The smoothest cycling slide I have ever felt was an Ed Brown. This was not by a small margin either. It seriously felt like it was on ball bearings covered in the worlds best lubricant. Almost Magical.

I have only ever seen one conventional 1911 that truly needed no modifications in my opinion. That was a Nighthawk Enforcer. Unfortunately these aren't CA Approved otherwise

I would sell my soul to get one

.

owners of s&w and sig 1911s show their inferiority complex here... and for good reason... they are truly inferior and are upset because they wasted their money when they could have have a much better more properly featured 1911 for the same price

you are obviously talking off your *****, you're trying to say that the "old" ones are the only one can own these two brands??? I have both of them and I am not OLD

From my experience it seems like the old guys recommend Colt and Les Baer. I'm assuming this is because it's what they know and what's been around awhile. You need to do what I did. Find a local shop that actually carries several of these brands in stock so you can do your own comparison as I did. I have been fortunate enough to be able to check out in detail Wilsons, Nighthawks, Dan Wessons, Springfields(Including the infamous TRP PRO), Les Baers, Paras, Sigs, S&W's, Colts, Remington Rand, DGFM, RIA, and many more I'm sure I've already forgotten

and lastly,listen to a guy who recommends a PARA oh boy

[M47_Dragon]

My first SW1911 was such a piece of crap, I bought another.

[RolinThundr]

Are SW 1911 made in Brazil? I thought only Springer 1911 are made by Imbel, Brazilian company?

...Let's start with the 1st misinformation before I go into why. S&W 1911s are not made in Brazil - they are made right here in the USA. It's Springfield Armory that imports their frames from South America...

Springfield Armory does import parts/frames for it's low-end models from Brazil, however, SA's higher end models (Loaded/Operator/Custom) are not imported, they're all done in the USA.

[Exiledviking]

Springfield Armory does import parts/frames for it's low-end models from Brazil, however, SA's higher end models (Loaded/Operator/Custom) are not imported, they're all done in the USA.

For the record, all of Springfield's single stack 1911 frames and slides are forged in Brazil. The higher end models are built in the USA using the imported blank forgings.

[sholling]

For the record, all of Springfield's single stack 1911 frames and slides are forged in Brazil. The higher end models are built in the USA using the imported blank forgings.

For the record there is nothing wrong with those forgings or the frames that are completed in Brazil.

[kamagong]

I have yet to be impressed with any les baer in any respect. They are like the Colt of "Custom" 1911's way over priced. You pay for the name.

That's interesting coming from a person who owns a TRP. I'll take a Baer over a TRP any day. Both are good guns, but it's the TRP that is overpriced.

[xounlistedxox]

Wow I never imagined so many cry babies. Why are people so crude and disrespectful on here, but whenever I'm at the range everyone is so courteous and are able to share all of their opinions with mutual respect?

kamagong: I have rented several les baers and **** them at length with my trp right next to them. I paid $1300 for my trp brand new with a lifetime warranty and could easily turn around and sell it for more than I paid for it. The les baers had less features, cost more, and werent built any better than the next 1911 in the ~$1000 price range.

ducman: all of those were individual opinions about each pistol being highlighted at the time. If you cannot understand how an Ed Brown has the smoothest slide I've ever felt, but may need some other work imo abd that a Nighthawk may not have the smoothest slide, but has all the features a tactical 1911 wouod ever need... then that's your problem, not mine.

retired: The TRP PRO FBI model is infamous because it is not only rare, but was one of only two pistols to pass the FBI testing which included pistols from many top name makers that all failed.
Calling an s&w 1911 a real 1911 would be like calling a double stack 1911 a real 1911. While they both bear the 1911 they are different than a traditional 1911. Just because a firearm says 1911 doesn't mean it is one. If I stamp 1911 into one of my glocks will you call it a 1911?

[chickenfried]

Wow I never imagined so many cry babies. Why are people so crude and disrespectful on here, but whenever I'm at the range everyone is so courteous and are able to share all of their opinions with mutual respect?

[sholling]

Wow I never imagined so many cry babies. Why are people so crude and disrespectful on here, but whenever I'm at the range everyone is so courteous and are able to share all of their opinions with mutual respect?

That's kind of what happens when you enter a thread by trash talking and flaming other peoples choices. I suspect that you would have gotten a much friendlier response if you'd been courteous and shared actual facts and done so with mutual respect.

kamagong: I have rented several les baers and **** them at length with my trp right next to them. I paid $1300 for my trp brand new with a lifetime warranty and could easily turn around and sell it for more than I paid for it. The les baers had less features, cost more, and werent built any better than the next 1911 in the ~$1000 price range.

Two points are key. First your $1300 TRP comes off a production line just like a SA Loaded, or a Ford or a Chevy. That Les Baer is made up of parts that are individually hand fitted to each other by a master gunsmith. The slide is hand fitted to the frame, the barrel hand fitted to the bushing and the out of the box accuracy difference between a base model Baer and a TRP is huge.

Second, you're comparing a rental. Rentals are regularly beaten to crap and rarely cleaned.

Calling an s&w 1911 a real 1911 would be like calling a double stack 1911 a real 1911. While they both bear the 1911 they are different than a traditional 1911. Just because a firearm says 1911 doesn't mean it is one. If I stamp 1911 into one of my glocks will you call it a 1911?

So a Colt Series 80 isn't a 1911? It varied from the original design. How about a Kimber? It uses a Swartz safety not found in the original 1911. Maybe a Springfield Armory isn't a 1911? It uses a non-standard firing pin? Maybe nobody but RIA makes a 1911 because almost nobody else uses original GI sights? Or are you personally the final arbiter of defining all things 1911?

Next time try a little courtesy and mutual respect. I think you'll find it works wonders everywhere.

[kamagong]

kamagong: I have rented several les baers and **** them at length with my trp right next to them. I paid $1300 for my trp brand new with a lifetime warranty and could easily turn around and sell it for more than I paid for it. The les baers had less features, cost more, and werent built any better than the next 1911 in the ~$1000 price range.

I guess it all depends on what you want. While it is true that a TRP has certain features (i.e., front strap checkering, extended magwell) that my Baer doesn't, the opposite is also true. The Concept II has a high undercut triggerguard, no-ILS, a Kart barrel, and is made of all tool steel parts. The TRP has none of these things which I consider more important than checkering and an extended magwell.

I still say that the TRP is overpriced. For only a couple hundred more you could have bought a Springfield Custom Carry, which is built by the Springfield Custom Shop to the same exacting standards as the Pro. It also has a lifetime warranty, and uses genuine Novak sights and a Nowlin barrel. The internals are better too, and they're hand fitted.

[Black Majik]

kamagong: I have rented several les baers and **** them at length with my trp right next to them. I paid $1300 for my trp brand new with a lifetime warranty and could easily turn around and sell it for more than I paid for it. The les baers had less features, cost more, and werent built any better than the next 1911 in the ~$1000 price range.

That is certainly laughable and sorry to say, a load of BS. While the TRP is a great pistol, it comes off a production line just like the S&W and Colts you scorn. Also regarding quality, Springfield's TRP are just as loaded with MIM parts as their competition (with DWs having none, and Colt 2nd). Why not buy a Dan Wesson then for less, and having better parts. I noticed you never mentioned any DWs in your posts.

retired: The TRP PRO FBI model is infamous because it is not only rare, but was one of only two pistols to pass the FBI testing which included pistols from many top name makers that all failed.
Calling an s&w 1911 a real 1911 would be like calling a double stack 1911 a real 1911. While they both bear the 1911 they are different than a traditional 1911. Just because a firearm says 1911 doesn't mean it is one. If I stamp 1911 into one of my glocks will you call it a 1911?

I'm not sure how the Springfield PRO is "rare." I guess to Calguns standards, it's rare. But then again, I saw an in production FN SLP being sold labeled as "rare." Springfield PROs get released regularly in batches when FBI orders are fulfilled, they're certainly not rare since they're still in production.

By your standards of what makes a 1911 a 1911? Nothing produced today would fall into a 1911 standard. Beavertail grip safeties, extended thumb safeties, FLGR, FCS, 3-hole triggers weren't in the original design.

BTW, how would Para with the "PXT Power Extractor" be labeled as a 1911 when a S&W 1911 isn't? What, by your definition would discount the S&W 1911 as being labeled a "1911?"

[chickenfried]

Excellent post. I'll only add most consider the base model baer, the PII. Which has front strap checkering, ~$300 more than a TRP.

I guess it all depends on what you want. While it is true that a TRP has certain features (i.e., front strap checkering, extended magwell) that my Baer doesn't, the opposite is also true. The Concept II has a high undercut triggerguard, no-ILS, a Kart barrel, and is made of all tool steel parts. The TRP has none of these things which I consider more important than checkering and an extended magwell.

I still say that the TRP is overpriced. For only a couple hundred more you could have bought a Springfield Custom Carry, which is built by the Springfield Custom Shop to the same exacting standards as the Pro. It also has a lifetime warranty, and uses genuine Novak sights and a Nowlin barrel. The internals are better too, and they're hand fitted.

[retired]

Wow I never imagined so many cry babies. Why are people so crude and disrespectful on here, but whenever I'm at the range everyone is so courteous and are able to share all of their opinions with mutual respect?

kamagong: I have rented several les baers and **** them at length with my trp right next to them. I paid $1300 for my trp brand new with a lifetime warranty and could easily turn around and sell it for more than I paid for it. The les baers had less features, cost more, and werent built any better than the next 1911 in the ~$1000 price range.

ducman: all of those were individual opinions about each pistol being highlighted at the time. If you cannot understand how an Ed Brown has the smoothest slide I've ever felt, but may need some other work imo abd that a Nighthawk may not have the smoothest slide, but has all the features a tactical 1911 wouod ever need... then that's your problem, not mine.

retired: The TRP PRO FBI model is infamous because it is not only rare, but was one of only two pistols to pass the FBI testing which included pistols from many top name makers that all failed.
Calling an s&w 1911 a real 1911 would be like calling a double stack 1911 a real 1911. While they both bear the 1911 they are different than a traditional 1911. Just because a firearm says 1911 doesn't mean it is one. If I stamp 1911 into one of my glocks will you call it a 1911?

First, I was only asking questions of your statements because I wanted to understand what you meant by them; no whining involved.

Second, you should probably know what the word means before you use it. Infamous generally means something/someone with a bad reputation; i.e., the Ford Pinto was infamous for it's gas tank exploding when in a crash/Richard Ramirez was infamous due to his horrific murders.

Infamous is not the proper word to describe the Pro model by SA. I am well aware of the test results also and would like to have one, but can't afford it.

Third, as I said, I didn't know what you meant by your statement about S&W not being a real 1911 and was seeking some edification. Your sarcastic reply about stamping 1911 on a Glock was unnecessary.

Fourth, stating your opinion of certain models and brands is well and good; it is just that, an opinion and everyone has one. Trash talk and insulting members for their opinion is a good way to remove your ability to post in this forum.

So, take it down a couple of notches and knock off the insults.