1911 Thoughts?

[n2k]

sholling,

Thanks for the break down. Great info.

I think the solution is to start my 1911 collection and purchase one of each.
Then come to my own conclusion on which I prefer.

Here we go.....

[Black Majik]

Well said Sholling.

A few thoughts on the S&W 1911s from what I've seen. SW1911s used to come with some messy crown jobs, S&W listened and current production 1911s come with a much cleaner muzzle crown. The guns are smooth, I actually prefer the fit and finish to those of Springfields. The triggers are lighter, the guns usually don't exhibit much play in slide to frame, and they lock-up nicely in battery. However, I still wish they use different sights. The rear of the fixed sights still shows a significant gap between the sight and slide, noticeable if you look from the side of the slide.

The external extractor is a no-go for me. While I rarely read about complaints regarding reliability, Hilton Yam has written an article regarding failures on high round count SW1911s due to the location of the extractor. The EE as found on the SW1911s are located slightly higher than it is ideal, so it doesn't have optimum contact with the cartridge case. While it doesn't show up early in the gun's life, it can cause failures after a lot of usage.

I've always wanted a SW1911 commander with a scandium frame, however the EE was the detractor. The swartz safety in S&W's 1911s don't matter much to me.

[sholling]

The external extractor is a no-go for me. While I rarely read about complaints regarding reliability, Hilton Yam has written an article regarding failures on high round count SW1911s due to the location of the extractor. The EE as found on the SW1911s are located slightly higher than it is ideal, so it doesn't have optimum contact with the cartridge case. While it doesn't show up early in the gun's life, it can cause failures after a lot of usage.

If I remember correctly Yam wrote that in theory there could potentially be an issue with a very high round count pistol but that he hadn't seen it show up yet. That may have changed. Of course that just means that you have a great excuse to buy a S&W PC1911 which he said was immune to this potential problem.

Anyway the number of people that ever put enough rounds through a pistol to worry about it is so low that I wouldn't hesitate to add another to my collection. Besides how many IEs last that long?

[sholling]

sholling,

Thanks for the break down. Great info.

I think the solution is to start my 1911 collection and purchase one of each.
Then come to my own conclusion on which I prefer.

Here we go.....

Everyone should own one of each.

I have my eye on two more once the @#$% list goes away. A full sized Fusion and a Wilson Compact CQB with an alloy frame. And maybe a commander sized S&W SW1911PD.

[Black Majik]

If I remember correctly Yam wrote that in theory there could potentially be an issue with a very high round count pistol but that he hadn't seen it show up yet. That may have changed. Of course that just means that you have a great excuse to buy a S&W PC1911 which he said was immune to this potential problem.

Anyway the number of people that ever put enough rounds through a pistol to worry about it is so low that I wouldn't hesitate to add another to my collection. Besides how many IEs last that long?

Good point regarding the extractor. I've eaten through IEs before, I suppose I was in a pickier mood this morning.

Those PC1911s are definitely a work of art. I'm surprised they're not more popular.

[hnoppenberger]

External Extractor = no-go for me.

Go with either a Springfield or Kimber. Buy colt if you want to spend more money for nothing but a picture of a pony on the slide.

this man is a fool - i got a colt bought at retail for 899 for a flawless functioning weapon made of forged steel in USA.
the parts are clearly better on colts. just as colt AR-15s are made better than almost all. search you can see the parts charts.

kimber is good, springfield is brazil.

[Black Majik]

this man is a fool - i got a colt bought at retail for 899 for a flawless functioning weapon made of forged steel in USA.

kimber is good, springfield is brazil.

Why is he a fool? Colt's are great guns, but they're overpriced. I have a NRM Colt Government too, but to pay $900 for a bare bones 1911? Why go that route when Springfield, Kimber, Smith and Wesson, Dan Wesson, and Para Ordnance makes 1911s with factory options such as extended thumb safeties, grip safeties, beavertail, 3-hole trigger, skeleton hammer, FCS, FLGR (meh), and better fixed sights. Paying $900 for a bare bones 1911, you're paying for the name.

BTW, Imbel makes fantastic 1911s. Just because they're Brazilian made shouldn't discount the quality of their firearms.

[retired]

sholling, you forgot to mention this that I copied from another 1911 thread:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=3232436&postcount=40

I believe it deserves some mention here to help inform anyone thinking about a 1911. I know I was not aware of this and I have found your posts on the 1911 pistols to be both informative and detailed.

[sholling]

Good point regarding the extractor. I've eaten through IEs before, I suppose I was in a pickier mood this morning.

Those PC1911s are definitely a work of art. I'm surprised they're not more popular.

I love my PC1911. I'd buy a second for my SHTF handgun if it could be had from the factory with fixed combat sights. I think it would look funny modified.

I think that one only reasons that they don't sell more are 1) Almost nobody looking for pistol at that level realizes that they exist; 2) local shops price gouge on them. I had one try to get $100 over the $2500 MSRP and wound up paying $1700 at a dealer that actually wanted my business.

[BunnySlayer]

For the record bugsplat is NOT a fool and sholling's post was right on the money. As the owner of four Colts I can personally attest to the fact that they are overpriced for what you get. I have put several gunsmiths kids through college getting my Colts to shoot while my Smith 1911 is nearly as good out of the box. Of all my 1911's it's the Smith that sits next to my bed loaded. What does that say for the gun. Additionaly I have experience with both companies customer service. Colts was non existant. Arrogant, rude and refused to fix a problems with a gun that was brand new and never been fired (broken hammer out of the box on a SAA) while S&W rebuilt a wornout 20 year old duty gun bought before the warranty was in place for nothing. Sorry to say it as Colt is a part of our heritage as Americans but almost everyone makes a better 1911 for the $ than they do. You pay a lot for the horsie on the gun.

[n2k]

I just touched this one and and the S&W.......

Looks like Christmas is coming early.

[xounlistedxox]

For that price I would go for a Kimber, Para, or Springfield long before I would get a S&W poor attempt at a 1911. You can get a Kimber loaded up with go fast goodies and night sights for less than a S&W without night sights. Ultimately I would recommend spending a few more dollars and getting a Kimber TLE, Para SSP, or Springfield Loaded Model. You won't be disappointed. I can't count how many times I've been to the range with my pistols and a guy comes up with either a Sig "1911", or a S&W "1911" and wishes he could turn back time to purchase a "real" 1911.

I own a Kimber Tactical Custom II, and a Springfield TRP Operator both are over the price of the S&W, but are of considerably higher quality. I used to own a DGFM which is a Colt made in Argentina which was a good buy at $400.

[Beelzy]

Hey now, some of us like both.

[Black Majik]

n2k, I noticed that you didn't have a price limit. How much you willing to pay?

[xounlistedxox]

I am not a fan of Sig's at all. I bought a Sig P226 in .40 to give it a try. I was pleasantly disappointed and sold it back to the shop I bought it at for a loss of a couple hundred bucks(before I knew about calguns) because I disliked it so much. Now if I don't even like Sig's take on their own firearm there is no way in the world they could ever make a 1911 worthwhile.