Hiking sidearm - Bears Beware :)

[Carcassonne]

my ears heart from her voice, please stop

If I was there I would have sprayed the girl with mace, and bought the bear a beer.



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[victor1echo]

All the research in the world shows that bear spray is more effective; that said i carry both Glock 10mm.

[ZirconJohn]

Here is my backpacking gun:

629 Backpacker. 44 Magnum also.

2.5" barrel.

The short, ported barrel makes for a major muzzle flash.

I figure even if I miss the bear, I'd set him on fire.

... you gonna have to get up REAL CLOSE and...,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EaR5x3Mh6M

*** NICE gun tho ... really nice.

I just carry Ruger .45LC pack a +P

[Beendare]

I emailed glock almost a week ago....still no comment from them on Hardcast bullets....

[SevenSixTwoNATO]

Where are you guys hiking to be afraid of bear in CA? All the encounters I have had they go away after you scream at them. I have not encountered a mother cub scenario however

[Carcassonne]

I emailed glock almost a week ago....still no comment from them on Hardcast bullets....

Their manual says, or use to say, no lead or reloads. Hardcast is lead. They put that in their because of the lowest common denominator. That means the idiots who don't clean their guns. I have shot hardcast from all my Glock pistols with stock barrels, and have not had a problem. Clean your barrel every 50-100 rounds. If you think you are going to shoot more than 50-100 bullets at a bear at one time, than I suggest you carry something bigger, or stay away from that area. You can also buy an aftermarket barrel (Lone Wolf, KKM, Stromlake) that can take lead bullets.


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[GlockN'Roll]

All the research in the world shows that bear spray is more effective;

that said i carry both Glock 10mm.

Link please?

[JohnCCW]

Snubbie bear gun? Stupid.
Chrono your rounds and calculate your real ME.
I'll bet your 44Mag is barely a 45LC in performance.

[Rover]

I spend a lot of time in bear country- both brownies and Blackies, my take;

i think the hardcast bullets are a game changer...so the old school thinking 'file the sight" on your .44mag isn't accurate anymore IMO. The much better penetration of the hardcast gives a guy better odds of breaking down a large critter or impacting CNS point. The additional penetration over HP bullets almost has to be seen to be believed. I think HP bullets have given pistols a bad rap in relation to critter stoppers.

How do hardcast compare to FMJ? I've always thought the reason for hardcast was a cheaper alternative to FMJ, without the drawbacks both in speed and cleanliness of cast and swedged lead.

Also, what weight hardcast are you running?

I load mostly cast lead for my .44s for range practice, and then have a fer varieties of JHP, SJHP, FMJ, etc bullets for other situations. I'd be curious if I could replace a few of my bullets in inventory with hardcast as they're still pretty darn cheap.

OP, I personally would have gotten something with a little more barrel, I carry in a chest holster and the 6.5" barrel on my 629 has never been a hindrance. On the contrary it allows me to own a single gun for back-country 4 and 2 legged critter duties as well as an awesome range gun I can reliably ring steel with at just about any distance. Thus I have tons of trigger time with my backwoods gun. In Ca however, I mostly carry my XD, our critters are small and out tweekers are many, the extra few in the mag are comforting. Never met a bear in Ca I seriously considered drawing on, but some of the random folk you meet in the middle of nowhere, that's a different story.

[The Tiger]

All the research in the world shows that bear spray is more effective; that said i carry both Glock 10mm.

It is more complicated than that. Yes, "studies" show bear spray has a high percentage effectiveness, allegedly higher than guns. However, when you hear these stats alone they leave out the big picture. Are they comparing apples to apples?

http://www.hcn.org/articles/bear-spray-for-hunters-a-reality-check

In Tom Smith’s bear-spray research, just 10 of 72 bear-spray incidents involved charging bears. Most incidents involved curious or non-aggressive bears. In contrast, his gun study examined bear attacks only. Comparing the two studies is like comparing the injury rate for people picking up apples to the injury rate for people picking up live hand grenades.

So NOT apples to apples. Curious vs Charging vs Attacking

I have researched this and will share my opinions. And I've had a few bear encounters, both black and brown, including sows with cubs. Luckily I've never been charged.

1. Bear spray has an effective range of 30 feet. Bears run 50 feet per second. Remember that 20 foot limit for an attacking human? Do you want to wait until an animal that runs 50 feet per second is 30 feet from you? That's #1 for me.

2. I have read that bear spray is not effective on bears that have previously been exposed to it. How will you know that a bear had been previously exposed? You won't. I've heard they don't mind the taste. I've seen videos of bears being sprayed. They usually just run off. I've never seen a bear writhing in pain like what happens with people when you spray them.

I have a theory that the effectiveness of bear spray has more to do with the "SURPRISE WTF IS THIS STUFF COMING AT ME" than the effects of the chemical agent.

Then there is the opinion by some that hunters, with a gun at the ready, would be foolish to drop the gun and reach for holstered spray. You don't have time for that, remember 50 feet per second.

same link

It takes hunters far too long to bring a slung rifle into action to shoot an elk, let alone use it to stop a charging grizzly -- and it’s not uncommon for grizzlies to charge hunters. In 2011, for example, 31 of 83 people in the Northern Rockies charged by a grizzly were hunters, said Chris Servheen, who coordinates grizzly bear recovery for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

And the effectiveness of firearms may be partly due to factors that you can't control for when doing a study.

* What kind of firearm was it? Was it appropriate for bears?
* What kind of ammunition was it? Hard cast or Hollow points?
* Was the shooter trained, experienced, or a good shot?

So I will reserve judgment on the validity of a statistic until I see the raw data. Then I will arm myself with the best tool I see fit and train myself to be as prepared as possible.

BOTTOM LINE: I'm already carrying a gun. I'm not just carrying for bears. There are other concerns, both 4 legged and 2 legged. I have enough junk that I'm carrying and I don't want to carry anymore than I have to, so no bear spray.

[mlevans66]

I thought all you needed was wow hear spray and a high pitched whiney voice?

OMG I could not stop laughing! is this real?

Also that's a nicer shooter but dang is it gonna hurt to shoot.

[Carcassonne]

How do hardcast compare to FMJ? I've always thought the reason for hardcast was a cheaper alternative to FMJ, without the drawbacks both in speed and cleanliness of cast and swedged lead.

Also, what weight hardcast are you running?

I load mostly cast lead for my .44s for range practice, and then have a fer varieties of JHP, SJHP, FMJ, etc bullets for other situations. I'd be curious if I could replace a few of my bullets in inventory with hardcast as they're still pretty darn cheap.

FMJ or jacketed hollowpoints are usually made with pure lead which is the softest lead available; usually around 5-6BHN. Hardcast lead is stronger, harder (~12-18BHN), and deforms less on impact which means it won't veer off course as easily do to change in center of mass and angular momentum. Hardcast also allows for sharp corners on the edges which gives it a cutting action. If you want to poke deep straight holes in a substance using a cheap dense material, hardcast lead bullets are your best option.

[KTM RICK]

Don't limp wrist that one.

[Echidin]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record whenever this topic comes up. Anyone carrying a 10mm into big bear territory with the idea of protecting themselves from a charging bear on the attack is going to find out real quick and much too late that it was the wrong choice. Seeing a bear at the zoo vs. unexpectedly encountering a bear in its habitat that shows no fear of humans and with nothing between you and him is a very humbling experience. But hey, I guess 10mm is better than nothing.

[robodeer]

I wonder how those Lehigh rounds would do.