...

[EvolvedRaven]

They can.

Customer goes into FFL and sees the new Aero Pew Pew Pew stripper lower
Customer wants that lower as a pistol but doesn't want it complete yet
FFL builds Aero lower into a CA Compliant SSE Pistol
DROS is submitted as an Exempt Pistol
10 days later customer comes back and picks up pistol, DROS is complete
FFL buys back all parts installed on the pistol minus the lower
Customer leaves with just the stripped lower registered as a pistol

So the statement of 'someone can get a stripped lower DROSed as pistol' is true.

This is an instance of how someone can get just a stripped lower in CA registered as a pistol.

All laws were followed.

I guess finding a vendor to "assemble" one for you locally would be the hard part...80% it is...

[lone shooter]

I guess finding a vendor to "assemble" one for you locally would be the hard part...80% it is...

Depending on your area:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1071864

http://www.franklinarmory.com/PRODUCTS_PISTOLS.html

and of course 2A Zone.

[munkeeboi]

The DOJ, nor have any of the 58 DAs, opined on the matter and no cases that I am aware of says you cannot go Pistol --> Rifle --> Pistol in CA. The great minds who we all trust assume you will get popped for SBR but there is no LAW that says in CA you cannot go Pistol --> Rifle --> Pistol. Hence why it is determined as a 'Too gray don't go there' area.

isn't the CA Penal code Law? not sure the DOJ needs to opine on it. I'm highlighting what STIX posted

California Penal Code 17170
17170. As used in this part, "short-barreled rifle" means any of
the following:
(a) A rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in
length.
(b) A rifle with an overall length of less than 26 inches.
(c) Any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration,
modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an
overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less
than 16 inches in length.
(d) Any device that may be readily restored to fire a fixed
cartridge which, when so restored, is a device defined in
subdivisions (a) to (c), inclusive.
(e) Any part, or combination of parts, designed and intended to
convert a device into a device defined in subdivisions (a) to (c),
inclusive, or any combination of parts from which a device defined in
subdivisions (a) to (c), inclusive, may be readily assembled if
those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same
person.

so we all agree PISTOL --> RIFLE is OK (let's consider CA situations only)

ok...so now it's Rifle and we want to go back to a pistol. How can you go back to a pistol and avoid violating anything in section C?

[Baboosh]

There are many threads about it and I was corrected on the matter. I made a statement in a thread that once a rifle always a rifle in CA and the bigwigs corrected me with all their legal talk.

[Click Boom]

If the receiver was ever previously DROSed as a long gun already then no you SHOULD NOT build it into a pistol.

Is that in CA only, or in general? I think it's CA only, but just making sure.

Thanks for your continued help to the unwashed masses.

[Baboosh]

Is that in CA only, or in general? I think it's CA only, but just making sure.

Thanks for your continued help to the unwashed masses.

Read ATF letters attached to this thread.

[Click Boom]

Well what fun is that? Dropping tidbits of information lets people actually think and engage in a thoughtful conversation.

I can make a statement that the Taurus Judge is legal in CA.

It's vague but it is 100% true.

Keep it going! I would support the hell out of your business if I lived closer! You are an A++++ FFL from everything i can tell!

[Click Boom]

Read ATF letters attached to this thread.

I believe I understand the answer to be that IT IS OK TO BUILD A PISTOL IN ANOTHER STATE WITH A RECEIVER DROSED IN CA, but it always makes me feel better to hear you confirm it. Some of us have residences in 2 states

Also I know the atf has flopped around on some determinations before so hearing it from you is added goodness.

Now here's a question.

Say someone does the above, i.e. bought lower in CA, moved to Arizona/Nevada/Idaho/etc, then builds it into a pistol. It is my understanding that the feds don't care, based on that last determination letter. Could the person then take it back, after being fully built, into CA in their travels?

And do you have any commentary on a similar situation to the above, but in this case the gun is over 26", with a VFG, making it a "firearm?"

And another Q, while I'm at it: Would you expect it to be ok, after building pistol out of state with CA regularly Drosed lower, to move back to CA and VOL-REG it as a pistol?

I love me some AR pistols.

[Baboosh]

Yessir you are correct. The CA DROS does not taint the firearm.

[dscoduc]

I just watched a firearms blog that at one point the blogger was supposedly reading Q&S from a ATF letter. One question asked if you can legally build a AR15 pistol from a factory lower that had not yet been DROSed as a rifle. The answer was reported as "YES". As long as the lower has not been registered and therefore declaring as a rifle.

This is opposite from I have been told. Can I get some incite to this issue.

Perhaps the blog was referencing the fact that in some states a lower is registered as an "Other". Supposing you purchased a lower (registered as an Other) in Virginia and then moved to California, your lower is technically not registered as a rifle...

I wonder if that would pass the muster if you built out this "Other" into a pistol in California...

[Click Boom]

Yessir you are correct. The CA DROS does not taint the firearm.

Sweet.

Looking forward to hearing your opinion on future border-crossing considerations and volreg and if "firearm" definition matters on any of this.

In the meanwhile, this thread could use some eye candy:
(My fav pistol/firearm right now!)

[ke6guj]

isn't the CA Penal code Law? not sure the DOJ needs to opine on it. I'm highlighting what STIX posted



so we all agree PISTOL --> RIFLE is OK (let's consider CA situations only)

ok...so now it's Rifle and we want to go back to a pistol. How can you go back to a pistol and avoid violating anything in section C?

we assume that CADOJ (and the 58 DA's) would consider a pistol that is temporarily configured with a shoulder stock to forever considered a rifleand that converting back to pistol would create a CA-defined SBR. But we used to think the same way with the feds until BATF stated that that was not the case. different jurisdictions, same legal definition, but maybe not same interpretation.

bottom line is that nobody I know is suggesting you do Pistol > Rifle > Pistol in CA, not even with something like those Glock rifle upper conversions that you could probably swap back and forth hundreds of times without issue, but that one time...

[ke6guj]

I believe I understand the answer to be that IT IS OK TO BUILD A PISTOL IN ANOTHER STATE WITH A RECEIVER DROSED IN CA, but it always makes me feel better to hear you confirm it. Some of us have residences in 2 states

the feds has said that CA rifle DROS does not federally taint that receiver, so it should not be an issue to build that up in another state however you wish (provided you comply with that state's laws.

Say someone does the above, i.e. bought lower in CA, moved to Arizona/Nevada/Idaho/etc, then builds it into a pistol. It is my understanding that the feds don't care, based on that last determination letter. Could the person then take it back, after being fully built, into CA in their travels?

personally, I would never bring back such a firearm into CA. too easy for CA to look up past history of that receiver and see that RIFLE DROS and pop you for an SBR. "but I built it as a pistol in NV, your Honor..." probably won't help you much in court.

And do you have any commentary on a similar situation to the above, but in this case the gun is over 26", with a VFG, making it a "firearm?"

federally an "other" but in CA its still a pistol. if they try to attach rifle status to it, you have to worry about 26" rule, 30" rule, and 16" rule.

And another Q, while I'm at it: Would you expect it to be ok, after building pistol out of state with CA regularly Drosed lower, to move back to CA and VOL-REG it as a pistol?

I love me some AR pistols.

personally, I would never bring a pistol into CA that was DROSed as a rifle, no matter where it was made into a pistol. not worth trying to save $50-100 to just buy another lower when I lived out of state and just keep that rifle-DROSed receiver to use as a rifle.

[Click Boom]

Yeah Jack those are all good points. I wonder if VOLREG would change things? Would volreg override/wipe-out DROS?

[iMigraine]

A 80% bare lower is still illegal for use as an AR Pistol because it's not registered? Is that correct?