...

[iMigraine]

Ok, I have to get it registered from an FFL. What are the chances of that happening? I have two 80% lowers for AR 9mm builds. Would love to make one a pistol.

[Click Boom]

A 80% bare lower is still illegal for use as an AR Pistol because it's not registered? Is that correct?

No, it is legal to build a firearm. You just need to follow 2015 SSE procedures. You do not need to register it at a FFL.

[Bullitt01]

Wow, this is getting crazy! Sounds easier/safer to just pony up the bux and get a legal PPT pistol lower if you want one.

I have no idea what the baboosh proposal would cost??

[Click Boom]

Wow, this is getting crazy! Sounds easier/safer to just pony up the bux and get a legal PPT pistol lower if you want one.

I have no idea what the baboosh proposal would cost??

Easier than just going to baboosh and getting a stripped lower? Probably not too expensive to just get a stripped lower

[Mute]

isn't the CA Penal code Law? not sure the DOJ needs to opine on it. I'm highlighting what STIX posted



so we all agree PISTOL --> RIFLE is OK (let's consider CA situations only)

ok...so now it's Rifle and we want to go back to a pistol. How can you go back to a pistol and avoid violating anything in section C?

I believe the waffler in all this is that the assumption is a DROSed and registered rifle obviously can't be changed into a pistol without violating that PC, but a pistol that's been converted to a rifle has not been DROSed nor registered as a rifle and therefore, it's a matter of interpretation when converted back into a pistol again. It was and still is a DROSed and registered pistol lower. Like the others have said, I wouldn't recommend doing so, but it is in fact unclear. Such is CA gun laws.

[JackRydden224]

That's my conclusion as well.

It seems like there is much less headache by going to Baboosh and you know for sure that you are legally in the clear.

Wow, this is getting crazy! Sounds easier/safer to just pony up the bux and get a legal PPT pistol lower if you want one.

I have no idea what the baboosh proposal would cost??

Easier than just going to baboosh and getting a stripped lower? Probably not too expensive to just get a stripped lower

[munkeeboi]

I believe the waffler in all this is that the assumption is a DROSed and registered rifle obviously can't be changed into a pistol without violating that PC, but a pistol that's been converted to a rifle has not been DROSed nor registered as a rifle and therefore, it's a matter of interpretation when converted back into a pistol again. It was and still is a DROSed and registered pistol lower. Like the others have said, I wouldn't recommend doing so, but it is in fact unclear. Such is CA gun laws.

Thanks, this makes so much more sense. The pistol only changes in feature to be "rifle like", but maintains it's designation as a pistol. I only looked at the rifle > pistol aspect with the assumption that it was now a rifle, which it may not be....Got it. Still very gray...but I understand the logic.

Going through Baboosh would be the easiest way if you are local to him.

[GOLDEN GUN]

I'm an 07 FFL and have done some research on this and think I have a good understanding on this. Il try to be as clear as possible..

- ATF states that when entering the information on the 4473 form, ANY stripped virgin AR lower must be entered in as a receiver in the firearm type box and can be assembled into an AR pistol so long as the word "rifle" is not entered in the firearm type box and that the receiver is a virgin and has never been assembled to a rifle upper.

- CA says that we are dealing with a pistol receiver. Pistol receivers are only available to roster exempt people or if built into SSE configuration.

- ATF says a pistol can go through Pistol>rifle > pistol without any problems

- CA statute says once a rifle, if configured to a pistol, one has manufactured an SBR

- ATF does not agree with CA statute

- baboosh is correct as far as the SSE process works but I have one question for Baboosh

Since ATF defines assembling as manufacturing.. Wouldn't the FFL 07 also need to pay the annual $2250 ITAR tax to assemble aka manufacture a pistol?

That's he only thing holding me back from doing it here in Norcal





Here is the ATF ruling on pistol>rifle>pistol in legalese

https://www.atf.gov/file/55526/download

[EvolvedRaven]

uh...i sent an email out to franklin armory, they are not local but closer than socal...they told me flat out no they cannot provide me with what i want...a stripped ar pistol lower. they did not say anything else, just a simple no. from what i see on their website they already have assembled ar pistols...they probably want you to buy theirs instead...

[Baboosh]

AR15 Pistols from New non registered AR15 rifle lowers

ITAR is part of being an 07.

If you are not manufacturing anything why file for 07? Less paperwork to be an 01.

[GOLDEN GUN]

But it's a separate fee to a separate agency.. So even though I'm an 07, I can't assemble the AR pistols unless I pay the ITAR correct?

It's not included with my 07 right?

07 is cheaper than 01 and and no one in the atf ever told me squat about ITAR

[Shovel]

But it's a separate fee to a separate agency.. So even though I'm an 07, I can't assemble the AR pistols unless I pay the ITAR correct?

It's not included with my 07 right?

07 is cheaper than 01 and and no one in the atf ever told me squat about ITAR

I'm pretty sure that there would be a lot of people in Nor Cal who would be interested in 2015 SSE compliant pistols if you start building them.

[FNH5-7]

They can.

Customer goes into FFL and sees the new Aero Pew Pew Pew stripper lower
Customer wants that lower as a pistol but doesn't want it complete yet
FFL builds Aero lower into a CA Compliant SSE Pistol
DROS is submitted as an Exempt Pistol
10 days later customer comes back and picks up pistol, DROS is complete
FFL buys back all parts installed on the pistol minus the lower
Customer leaves with just the stripped lower registered as a pistol

So the statement of 'someone can get a stripped lower DROSed as pistol' is true.

This is an instance of how someone can get just a stripped lower in CA registered as a pistol.

All laws were followed.

How much does this cost though?

Slapping on a single shot AR upper is easy. Assembling and disassembling a lower, takes a while.

[munkeeboi]

you're going to need the LPK sooner or anyways. Might as well buy it with it or arrange to provide your own so it doesn't need to be removed again.

[GOLDEN GUN]

Not too long.. My understand is that it only need to be functional.. Since its bolt action or break action, it's by default single shot so u don't need to put the mag catch since a sled is not required.. No bolt catch needed either, just fire control group is all I'm thinking... 2 roll pins