My First .45

[tacticalcity]

Is it a safe assumption that your list of requirements comes largely from things people you know have told you about guys and things you've read?

The reason I ask is your dislike of striker fired guns. Because they have some huge advantages over hammer guns.

1. Clothing and even a bad guys finger can stop a hammer fired gun in its tracks. It's extremely rare, but in a struggle and attacker could put his hand on the gun and use his finger or the web of his hand to stop the gun from firing.

2. Most hammer fired guns are DA/SA. 1911s, Hi-Powers, and a few others being notable exceptions. Double Action / Single Action guns have two distinct trigger pulls. What this means in practical terms is that is going to take two to three times as much practice and training to be worth a damn with them unless you are shooting slow fire. You'll under pull the first Heavy DA pull then rush it, causing you to miss, then having just done that you'll under pull the lighter SA followup pull and miss again. Getting yourself to stop doing that will take lots and lots of trigger time. It's just human nature.

The striker fired guns like the Glock, M&P, XD, etc. have the same trigger pull each and every time. So once you figure out how to pull that trigger without pulling yourself off target, you're set. The follow up shot requires the same amount of pressure. So the muscle memory develops in a fraction of the time.

Like I said, the 1911 and Hi-Powers also only have one pull, but they also have thumb safeties. Which are going to take lots of practice to master. Until you do you'll find yourself forgetting to flip them off and back on again. Which is must. Their light triggers demand that you always holster them with the safety on lest you put a hole in your leg.

SO WHAT DO I RECOMMEND.

1. Get a Glock. Easy to master. Simple to use. Will free you up to work on your shooting fundamentals rather than stressing out over a complicated trigger, thumbsafety or decocker which can trip you up when you're new. My second choice is a 1911. Not necessarily for a new shooter. Just in general. Since you are hot on a 45acp, it might work for you.

2. Get a 9mm. 45acp is just too much recoil for new shooter. Again, you want to focus on mastering the fundamentals and less recoil helps with that. It is less distracting. The goal right now is to master the art of shooting a handgun. Not to have the biggest badest handgun on the planet. The exception to this rule is if you get a 1911. The heavy frame of the 1911 helps with recoil absorption, and it a 1911 begs to be chambered in 45. But I still think you would be better served with a Glock for the first gun. Save the 1911 for your second gun once you have a nice solid foundation under your belt.

3. Find and take a Defensive Handgun Course or Tactical Pistol course right away. No matter how much or how little experience you have these courses will help make you a better shooter. They are a ton of fun. They go way beyond the boring NRA stuff...and they are much more exciting than your typical day at the range. There is no better way to master the fundamentals and learn how to truly use a handgun, than in a group setting with a couple instructors correcting your mistakes as you go. The competition and training section off the main index page here on Calguns will have courses in your area. A good local one here in Sacramento is www.gofast1.com. If you are located elsewhere I am sure there is one near you. Can't stress the importance of this enough. You will make a huge leap in ability by doing this. Not only in your marksmanship and fundamentals, but your safety and confidence level as well. All of that is critical. Normally takes a year or longer to get. Take the right course and you'll get in a day or two.

[BigGovernment]

Hey guys, just in case anyone's still following this. I've had a change of heart, based off some of the advice here and more online research, i'm now heavily considering the Glock 21, and the Glock 20(dependent on further 10mm ammo cost research). If anyone has any experience with glocks, and could provide insight on the pros and cons of the different models(SF/Gen4/...), I would really appreciate it. Thanks.

[Oceanbob]

Hey guys, just in case anyone's still following this. I've had a change of heart, based off some of the advice here and more online research, i'm now heavily considering the Glock 21, and the Glock 20(dependent on further 10mm ammo cost research). If anyone has any experience with glocks, and could provide insight on the pros and cons of the different models(SF/Gen4/...), I would really appreciate it. Thanks.

I can recommend the G 21SF but not the G20 for your first dance.

You're going to own a lot of handguns in the coming years..

I would get a nice .22 first. Every collection has .22s in it.

For .45ACP the Glock 21SF is perfect. 10 round mags and will take 13 round mags is you ever move to a normal state.

Yeah, get a 1911 down the road. I hope you have money. Or reload.

Because .45 is costly. Have you considered 9MM in a Glock 19 or 17. Every collection should have a couple of 9s. Less expensive and fun to shoot.

Good luck

[iMigraine]

Go to various ranges and rent every gun you are considering. Don't rush yourself either. Guns are such a personal decision hence all the different manufactures and models.

[Deimos887]

Hey guys, just in case anyone's still following this. I've had a change of heart, based off some of the advice here and more online research, i'm now heavily considering the Glock 21, and the Glock 20(dependent on further 10mm ammo cost research). If anyone has any experience with glocks, and could provide insight on the pros and cons of the different models(SF/Gen4/...), I would really appreciate it. Thanks.

10mm, while a great round, fits somewhat of a niche and is better suited towards more experienced handgunners (or hunters looking for a semi-auto backup sidearm).

Heavy recoil and expensive ammunition isn't going to do you any favors as a newbie, you'll just have to end up spending time unlearning all the bad techniques developed while shooting a cartridge with heavy recoil (if using 10mm proper, as most 10mm target loads out there are little more potent than .40s&w, and the "real" stuff is much more expensive) and cost prohibitive to become proficient with (even with a 9mm its going to take alot of time).

Have you ever shot a .40S&W? Most of our own membership is slanted against that round for having "excessive" recoil (I like it, but I've been shooting it for a long time... and longer than 9mm or .45; it carries more of a learning curve to shoot well than the other two).
10mm Auto is basically a .40S&W on steroids.

And as far as 2-legged threats go, 10mm isn't going to do anything in terms of terminal ballistics that .40 can't do (and arguably does better).

Terminal ballistics is much more complicated than X bullet delivers more energy than Y bullet.

.45acp while not the best choice for a newbie handgun, isn't necessarily a bad decision to go with.
But I too think you'd be better served with a 9mm starting off, if not a .22lr.

Really I'd just suggest putting forth many more hours of research before committing to anything.

And I'd personally suggest going with something striker fired as well, they're easier to learn on and master (not that most us, myself included are anywhere near there ).

I bought my first non-1911 .45acp handgun (G21SF) last summer, with the express intention of converting it to 10mm/.45super. Which I resisted doing so for years as I didn't see any point in investing in any .45's that weren't 1911s (because... 1911 ), as I grew up primarily shooting .40, and .40 and .45 are very comparable ballistically.
Well... I've found I really like shooting just plain old .45 out of this thing, G21's are great handguns!

[Bill Steele]

I agree with those that say a 10mm gun is not a great first choice.

If you are stuck on 45 Auto, then a Glock G21SF is the best possible first choice. If after a while you want to give 10mm a try, just go on Gunbroker and buy a G20 slide and some 10 round G20 magazines, bang, you have a fully stock G20SF.

[TomReloaded]

.45 isnt more powerful than 9mm or 40. Sometimes its weaker actually. Sometimes not. They're all about the same these days. You can pull 500 ft lb of energy out of a 9mm. Military 45 has about 350. Thats a big difference. Dont buy a 45 thinking you're getting a more powerful cartridge, you're just shooting bigger bullets really slowly, and sometimes more weakly.

If you get cheap stuff, you can pickup 50 rounds of .45 for about 20 bucks after tax... but you're not going to want to shoot just 50 rounds. It'll be more like 200 per range trip. If you go a few times a month, thats a car payment worth of ammo. 9mm is quite a bit cheaper to shoot, and it adds up really fast.

I shoot a ton and I dont really like 9mm, but its what I shoot now. Its just cheaper. If I had to defend myself, I know it wouldnt matter if im shooting 9, 40 or 45 either.

[Staticsouls]

+1^

I like shooting 45 better but get more practice with 9. I also carry 9 due to size, and due to price. Most modern sd ammo has what it takes to do the job. That said, I vote 1911, but they were my first guns, so kinda biased.

Seriously though, unless you have a trust fund rent some guns and get what you are best with. You will have time to get more later.

[sig45guy]

Sig 220. Badass gun no matter what state you're in.

Just bought a 220 for my first handgun and love it. I too had the 227 bug, but the slimmer 220 grip feels better and honestly, once you fire the gun you'll realize you only need one, maybe two rounds of .45 jhp to put down just about anything on two feet. If you need more than 8 rounds to do what you need to do then you might as well shoot Captain Kirk's phaser. Really, the 220 is badass and will serve you well all your life - unless you get that phaser😀

[Deimos887]

^ hate to burst your bubble, but not really.

...in short, handgun cartridges suck, including .45acp. If you want to put something down immediately grab a rifle or shotgun.

Handguns are always a compromise.

Terminal ballistics... I'd suggest reading into it. Particularly pistol cartridge ballistics.

[indytrucks]

^ hate to burst your bubble but 2 rounds of .45 or 9mm center mass is enough to put just about anyone down. If you really think it won't you're nuts. Ballistics be damned, 2 to the chest is still 2 to the chest. That's assuming you can actually hit a target in a high stress environment.

[Deimos887]

^ no sarcasm or snarkiness intended in my post.

Just attempting to curb the old wives tale, particulary for a new shooter, that single round of .45acp will center of mass will knock someone to their feet, dead before they hit the ground, and that 9mm must be a poodle shooter by comparison.
Which of course is just BS.

[indytrucks]

Oh no. Hell, I wouldn't even want a .22 to center mass personally. Haha. .45 or 9mm, either way whoever is on the receiving end would be having a very bad day. I'm just saying people put too much stress on caliber imo. Training is where it's at. Caliber means nothing if you can't put it where it needs to go.

[Waffleobill]

^ hate to burst your bubble, but not really.

...in short, handgun cartridges suck, including .45acp. If you want to put something down immediately grab a rifle or shotgun.

Handgun is always a compromise.

Terminal ballistics, sir... I'd do a little reading up into that. Particularly pistol cartridge ballistics.

You sir, are a jackass.

[Deimos887]

@ indytrucks

I agree.

As for the above, that was unwarranted. I'd suggest you read into that before knocking, as its actually well accepted as fact.