Santa Barbara

[S45]

I know of only 1 other "way" and that's only for some residents IF all these conditions apply: (1) they live in a city (2) that is incorporated and (3) has it's own PD that (4) isn't contracted with the Co SO for police services and (5) does NOT have a MOU with the SO to not issue CCWs and (6) has a more liberal GC policy than the county SO.

If you know if some other way for a full time resident of SBarbara Co to get a CA CCW, do tell!

Yeah I second that.

[Paladin]

I also heard rumors that SMPD was starting to issue CCW permits. I applied and received a letter 3 days later stating that I did not meet the requirements. When I called to find out what requirements I did not meet the records clerk stated she did not know and would have the Captain call me but he never has and he has always seemed to be busy when I try to call and talk to him. I have a very clean record, no moving violations in past 5 years, previous law enforcement so I figured I would at least get an interview but didn't even get that. I wouldn't hold my breathe on SMPD issuing CCW. My in-laws all live in SLO County and all are getting them either through SLO Sheriffs or Local PD.

On a side note they do not charge any fees upfront. They only charge you the fees if you get approved and they have their own qualification class so you don't have to take anything before applying with SMPD.

The below GC categories are listed from, roughly, weakest to strongest. Note well there's a range within each category. For example, someone who's work equipment is worth $10,000 (might pass Light Red) is assumed to be more at risk than someone who's equipment is worth only $1,000 (might pass Yellow). Plus, remember that equipment that cost you $1,000 isn't equivalent to someone making $500 cash deposits. Your equipment is not only used (let's say it would fetch $600), but also it's stolen (might then drop that to $300). Similarly, someone who walks with a slight limp (might pass Dark Green), is not as vulnerable as someone who requires a cane (might pass Light Green) and they're not as vulnerable as someone who requires a wheelchair (might pass Yellow). Evaluation of GC isn't black and white, but often shades of gray, a judgment call. That's one of the reasons why we say the map may be off by 1 color in either direction. So, if you have a GC that is listed under Light Green below it might pass in a Yellow county. Apply if you really want a CCW and can afford to waste the time, money and effort in applying since you're most likely to be denied. (Going through the process might be good practice.) Remember: we should win a robust 2nd A RBA from SCOTUS by 2021 July 01.

<snip>

All the below will likely pass in a Yellow county Some of us can get issued here.

(8) Lives in a remote area with little or no cellphone coverage and/or long LE response times. (Provide proof of residence location, photos of your acreage, of you farming/ranching, etc) N.B. While this may work with SLO Co SOs, it will not work with Alameda Co SO; not sure re. Napa and Yolo Co SOs.

(9) Employees required to work in remote locales at all hours with little or no cellphone coverage and/or long LE response times (e.g., wilderness photographer, surveyors, construction workers). (Get letter from employer supporting the application and willingness to accept liability, copies of relevant certificates/licenses, provide photos of you doing job, value of equipment) restricted to on-the-job only N.B. Your CCW may be restricted to on-the-job only.

(10) Employees at heightened risk due visiting isolated locations required by their employment (e.g., female RE agents showing houses to strangers at all hours while alone). (Get letter from employer supporting the application and willingness to accept liability, copies of relevant certificates/licenses, provide photos of you doing job, etc) N.B. Your CCW may be restricted to on-the-job only.

(11) Employees (e.g., business managers, property managers) who are at heightened risk due to valuables associated with their employment (e.g., Au/Ag, jewelry, pharmaceuticals, firearms, ammo or gunpowder ("inherently dangerous property"), cash sales or rental deposits). Get letter from employer supporting the application and willingness to accept liability, copies of relevant certificates/licenses, provide photos of you doing job, etc N.B. Your CCW may be restricted to on-the-job only.

(12) The nature of the business or occupation of the applicant is such that it is subject to personal risk and / or criminal attack, greater than the general population (e.g., private investigators, process servers, plain clothes security guards, bodyguards, taxi drivers). (Get letter from employer supporting the application and willingness to accept liability, copies of relevant certificates/licenses, photos of you on the job, etc.) N.B. Your CCW may be restricted to on-the-job only.

All the below will likely pass in a Light Red county. Few of us can get issued here.

(13) Business owners required to work at all hours in remote locales with little or no cellphone coverage and/or long LE response times (e.g., professional farmer or rancher, wilderness photographer, surveyor, contractor). (copies of relevant certificates/licenses, provide photos of you doing job at remote locations, value of equipment, etc) N.B. Your CCW may be restricted to on-the-job only.

(14) Business owners who are at heightened risk due to valuables associated with their profession or business activities (e.g., Au/Ag dealers, jewelry dealers, MD/pharmacists/pharma sales rep, business owner or landlord making cash sales or rental deposits, maybe NRA Instructor, RSO and FFL dealers due to regularly transporting "inherently dangerous property"). (written description of your business activities, copies of relevant certificates/licenses, provide photos of you doing job, etc) N.B. Your CCW may be restricted to on-the-job only.

The below Good Cause will likely pass in a Dark Red county. This is Virtual No Issue because virtually none of us can get issued here. There are 3 levels in Dark Red (from most restrictive to least): actual No Issue. SF and Santa Clara, for awhile, were once this. Next, corrupt issue. LA is like this per the CSA's report: 25 out of 25 audited files did not follow their own CCW policy re. residency and 24 out of 25 did not follow their own policy on GC. Last is Virtual No Issue: this is where they issue for category #15 below and only for that.

(15) They are at heightened risk due to a documented "clear & present danger to life, or great bodily harm" against them or an immediate family member (e.g., crazy ex- or disgruntled fired employee, stalker, anonymous nut case/evildoer, etc.). These GC policies are usually based upon CA State AG John Van de Kamp's early 1980s Opinion letter and require a number of additional conditions be present. (Proof includes police reports (if BG unknown), permanent restraining order (if BG known), evidence of current threats (e.g., audio recordings, video/pictures, written threats, etc).)

[Paladin]

Last conversation with the sheriff's licensing unit out of Santa Barbara told me that unless I was willing to write Brown a large campaign contribution than I shouldn't even bother. (Yeah I wish I was recording that conversation).

Someone should make this call again and record it. If you can get them to say it again (“What would it take to get a CCW?”), give that tape to a local, pro 2nd A attorney. You can find one by contacting your nearest NRA Member’s Council, CA Rifle & Pistol Association, local gun shop or shooting range or Michel & Associates (in LA). That will protect you with attorney client privilege. They then contact the county DA office and share it with them without naming you. The DA then investigates and request a criminal grand jury investigation. The criminal grand jury may then indict the sheriff and he’ll be arraigned on criminal charges and face a criminal trial.

As you can read, the DA has original jurisdiction in cases of crimes by public officials:

http://www.countyofsb.org/da/ib_prosecution_support.html

Here’s the DA’s contact info: http://www.countyofsb.org/da/contact_us.html

Just watch what’s been slowly unfolding in regards to corrupt issuance of CCWs in Santa Clara county under Sheriff Smith. See the Santa Clara thread in this forum.

[Paladin]

California Law requires that CCW applicants show "good cause" exists for the issuance of a CCW permit. Furthermore, California Law leaves the ultimate decision of CCW issuance to each individual Sheriff ("May" issue). As result of this decision making "ability", the county sheriff (both as an individual and their department as a whole) incurs potential civil liability for each and every concealed carry permit they issue.

To that end:
As a general rule, Sheriff Brown (and most other Sheriff's in California) only issues CCW permits under the following circumstances:

(1) The applicant's job, or business requires that he/ she have the ability to possess a loaded and concealed firearm, or otherwise poses a threat to society as a whole if the applicant does not have this ability. Examples of this are be private investigators and licensed firearms dealers.

(2) The applicant is in present and credible danger to their life or the lives of their family members.

Although these are the two circumstances in which it is likely Sheriff Brown would issue a CCW, any person not specifically prohibited from doing so may submit a CCW application for Sheriff Brown's review. Any such application should be forwarded to me. Upon receipt, I will present the application and supporting materials to Sheriff Brown for his review.

<snip>

If you have any questions about this, please feel free to contact me directly via email, or by telephone. - Craig

Sergeant Craig Bonner
Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department
Office of Professional Standards
(805) 681-4292

(I added the bolded parenthetical numbers)

#2 is a Dark Red GC
#1 is Light Red if restricted to business owners and professionals or Yellow if it includes employees.

Someone should use the above contact info to verify if the above quote accurately represents their current GC standard and whether “the applicant’s job or business” includes employees as well as business owners and professionals. If so, that would make Santa Barbara Yellow on the GC map. (Not me, I do too much 2nd A activism as it is and I’m in NorCal not SoCal.)

[Paladin]

Has anyone been issued a Santa Barbara SO CCW for any of the following reasons?

All the below will likely pass in a Yellow county Some of us can get issued here.

(8) Lives in a remote area with little or no cellphone coverage and/or long LE response times. (Provide proof of residence location, photos of your acreage, of you farming/ranching, etc) N.B. While this may work with SLO Co SO, it will not with Alameda Co SO; not sure re. Napa and Yolo Co SOs.

(9) Employees required to work in remote locales at all hours with little or no cellphone coverage and/or long LE response times (e.g., wilderness photographer, surveyors, construction workers). Get letter from employer supporting the application and willingness to accept liability, copies of relevant certificates/licenses, provide photos of you doing job, value of equipment. N.B. Your CCW may be restricted to on-the-job only.

(10) Employees at heightened risk due visiting isolated locations required by their employment (e.g., female RE agents showing houses to strangers at all hours while alone). Get letter from employer supporting the application and willingness to accept liability, copies of relevant certificates/licenses, provide photos of you doing job, etc. N.B. Your CCW may be restricted to on-the-job only.

(11) Employees (e.g., business managers, property managers) who are at heightened risk due to valuables associated with their employment (e.g., Au/Ag, jewelry, pharmaceuticals, firearms, ammo or gunpowder ("inherently dangerous property"), cash sales or rental deposits). Get letter from employer supporting the application and willingness to accept liability, copies of relevant certificates/licenses, provide photos of you doing job, etc N.B. Your CCW may be restricted to on-the-job only.

(12) The nature of the business or occupation of the applicant is such that it is subject to personal risk and / or criminal attack, greater than the general population (e.g., private investigators, some lawyers, process servers, plain clothes security guards, bodyguards, fugitive recovery agents/"bounty hunters," taxi drivers). Get letter from employer supporting the application and willingness to accept liability, copies of relevant certificates/licenses, photos of you on the job, etc. N.B. Your CCW may be restricted to on-the-job only.

[S45]

Someone should make this call again and record it.

http://www.countyofsb.org/da/ib_prosecution_support.html

http://www.countyofsb.org/da/contact_us.html

This would be great.
A county of 440,000 people having only ~65 active permits is insane.

[billie_morini]

Recording can be tricky. There are legal and ethical requirements at play when one records. It is necessary to inform parties involved in a discussion that a recording is taking place. Once this is established, then the suggested recording is a very good idea.

[S45]

Bumping to see if anyone has had any luck as of recent or if they've even tried as of recent.

[Big Jake]

You have a better chance of being issued a CCW in L.A. County then you do in Santa Barbara County!

[Paladin]

Santa Barbara SO may issue for Dark Red, Light Red and Yellow GC!

I spoke with Detective Deornellas (ph 805-681-4100), the LEO who handles CCWs for the sheriff. Not wanting to take too much of his time, I ran by him four general categories of GC: (1) Dark Red: personal threats or attacks supported by police reports (and restraining orders if BG known). (2) Light Red: business ownership or professional risks (e.g., regular large cash deposits or carrying valuables (e.g., pharmaceuticals), on the job). (3) Yellow: employment risks: pretty much the same as #2 but for employees rather than business owners. (4) Light Green (recreational risks): recreational activities in rural or wilderness areas.

He said they’d issue for Dark Red, probably for Light Red and maybe for Yellow, but a CCW for Light Red and Yellow would probably be restricted to on-the-job. Under Yellow, using the hypothetical of a female RE agent showing houses to strangers at night, he said they wouldn’t issue unless she had a prior incident that she reported to the police. He said they would not issue for Light Green, recreational risks. I didn’t bother asking about Dark Green....

So, based upon this, despite their OTJ restrictions and prior incident requirement I’m recommending Santa Barbara Co be changed to Yellow the CA CCW GC map. That does NOT mean if you have a Dark Red, Light Red or Yellow you will automatically be issued. GMC, LiveScan, background check and interview all still matter. But it does mean that if you have a GC that falls in those three colors (see post #31 at: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1482924) that applying is worth trying if you want a CCW even if it may have restrictions.

If you’re on the fence I’d recommend calling the detective and running your GC by him. But first have your GC and proof/evidence fleshed out and organized like you were applying so that you can readily answer his questions without trying to remember details while on the phone. He was polite and professional but don’t waste LEOs’ time.

ETA: No, I don’t live in Santa Barbara Co.

[Paladin]

Follow up.

On the SO’s CCW webpage it says:

The Sheriff’s Office only accepts applications for residents of unincorporated Santa Barbara County and the following incorporated cities: Santa Barbara, Buellton, Solvang, Carpinteria.

If you live in the city of Lompoc or Santa Maria, you will need to apply with your local police department.

From: https://www.sbsheriff.org/command-an...tandards-unit/

So I asked Det. Deornellas if a resident of those last two cities applied with their PD and got denied could they then apply with the SO? He said he’s never faced that situation before but speculated if the SO did accept and process the application the Sheriff would probably respect the decision of the Chief of Police and also deny them.

FWIW

[S45]

[Paladin]

[S45]

I gave the name, title, job function and phone number of the “expert witness” I based my opinion upon.

What do you base your opinion upon?

Living here for 30+ years. Being denied even after B&E incidents. Being an active member of WCGC for 15+ years and talking to hundreds of members in various professions like your expert witness named who have also been denied. The sheriff is a joke. He only issues permits to people who make large campaign contributions or those who are his aviation buddies. He doesn’t want the liability so he doesn't issue to cover his ***.

[Paladin]

Living here for 30+ years. Being denied even after B&E incidents. Being an active member of WCGC for 15+ years and talking to hundreds of members in various professions like your expert witness named who have also been denied. The sheriff is a joke. He only issues permits to people who make large campaign contributions or those who are his aviation buddies. He doesn’t want the liability so he doesn't issue to cover his ***.

(1) If you have evidence to prove the bolded assertion you should provide it to the Santa Barbara Co District Attorney’s office (http://www.countyofsb.org/da/index.html) and Sheriff Brown will end up going through the same wringer as Santa Clara Co Sheriff Laurie Smith: https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/12/...tting-process/

(2) If someone in SB Co really believes what you wrote in and really wants a CCW they can hire a lawyer and use the old Preston “Billy Jack” Guillory approach: CBS v. Block to force PRA compliance re. accepted GCs, Guillory v. Co of Orange (Gates), for 14th A EP attack and then Salute v. Pitchess to force issuance.

(3) We should win some sort of Carry at SCOTUS by 2022 July 01. We may win OC at CA9 en banc sometime before fall 2021 in Young, or a few months later in Nichols, or a few months after Nichols in Flanagan. Once we win a RBA OC we just do what they did in OH when the Ohio State Supreme Court said they had a right to OC back in 2003: we have OC demonstrations until the legislature passes Shall Issue CCWs.

Or maybe we should hold out for Constitutional Carry....