Why are some men like this.....?

[micro911]

My 5'2" wife can handle a semiauto. I have taught female cadets, and never had an issue with them regarding semiautos. The issue pistol was Beretta 92F series. I had a cadet who was less than 5' and she was fine with the Beretta. For that matter, they handled 12 Gauge shotguns shooting slugs and buck shots without much problem.

I guess you need to practice with it, and get used to the pistol.

[G-forceJunkie]

It's misogynistic when you assume based on gender.

I didn't realize using the inherent physical differences between the sexes when discussing particular physical abilitys was misogynistic. I suppose the soldiers in the threads about females in combat roles is misogynistic? Or the statement that men are, in general, stronger and faster? Show me an Olympic event based on physical strength and speed that is bested by a female. People are different. The sexes, in general, are build different. Stop trying to fight that biological fact just for arguments or PC sake.

[SilverTauron]

I didn't realize using the inherent physical differences between the sexes when discussing particular physical abilitys was misogynistic. I suppose the soldiers in the threads about females in combat roles is misogynistic? Or the statement that men are, in general, stronger and faster? Show me an Olympic event based on physical strength and speed that is bested by a female. People are different. The sexes, in general, are build different. Stop trying to fight that biological fact just for arguments or PC sake.

It was you who stated the premise that female physiology hinders shooting ability.

I think we can safely label that premise as pure bunk.

While there are natural biological differences which are relevant in discussing matters related to soldiering & Olympic fitness, those differences have no relevance to firearms handling.In fact the smaller build and precise fine motor skills of women favor them on the firing line over us macho men: the best shot ive seen at my indoor range was a girl.

Im detested by every feminist in the country,but facts stand apart from personal opinion.

[G-forceJunkie]

Any stupid jerk who says that would get his ash can kicked back to kindergarten by the women shooters in USPSA, and that includes rifle and shotgun.

How many women do you think shoot USPSA? Few thousand? Out of of the 150 million adult women in this country, your sample size is too tiny to be of any significance. The OP's issue was with the quoted person generality of women. I agree that generalities are not always correct, but they are correct much of the time.

[G-forceJunkie]

It was you who stated the premise that female physiology hinders shooting ability.

False. I said, due to physical strength, more women will have issues racking a heavy slide than a men. I even mentioned in my first post that this can be overcome with proper training and technique. If we take a sample of 10,000 random men and 10,000 random women and have the try and rack a heavy slide, my experience is that you will have more failures by the females. Just like there will be more men than women in the top 100 at this years New York Marathon. I have said NOTHING about skill.

I think we can safely label that premise as pure bunk.

Focus. We are not talking about shooting ability. We are talking about the physical strength of the hands, arms, and upper body.

While there are natural biological differences which are relevant in discussing matters related to soldiering & Olympic fitness, those differences have no relevance to firearms handling.In fact the smaller build and precise fine motor skills of women favor them on the firing line over us macho men: the best shot ive seen at my indoor range was a girl.

I agree when we are discussing skills. That is not the topic of this thread. We are talking about the average strength of the average male and female.

Im detested by every feminist in the country,but facts stand apart from personal opinion.

And the facts are that women, on average, have less upper body strength. Are you disputing that? The fact is, ANYONE who has inatiquate upper body strength can have an issue racking a stiff slide. I agree that "writing someone off' just because of their gender is wrong, but I'm not talking in absolutes here.

[tommyid1]

Jessie abate looks hawt.

[G-forceJunkie]

Having served in the military, I've seen women routinely clear Beretta M9s without any trouble-and that's a gun which was DEFINITELY not designed with women users in mind.

I would wager that women in the military would fall towards the top of the scale on strength and pistol skills compared to the average women. This thread is about the average female, not ones in occupations that require routine physical conditioning and marksmenship training. When i say "women in general" I am including everyting from the 18 year old "95 pound weekling' as someone else put it, to the OP's 89 year old grandma.

Lets leave the BS made up stat on MSNBC where they belong , shall we?

I can only report what I have seen with my own eyes. Or are you straight up calling me a liar?

What's this got to do with the OPs post?

Firearms are not one size fits all instruments. A gun which fits perfect for a pro shooter like Jessie Duff is probably completely unworkable for a big handed guy like me. Vice versa, she probably wouldn't enjoy shooting and handling my Beretta 92FS.

I fully agree! Some guns are too big for some people. Some guns are too small. Some slides are too stiff for some people. Some guns have controlls in places that some people have difficulty operating. We are all different, we all need to find the instrument that fits our own needs. Suggesting that people with small hands choose smaller gripped guns is prudent. Suggesting that people with lesser upper body and hand strength choose guns without heavily sprung slides is prudent. Suggesting that recoil sensitive people not choose a .44 magnum is prudent.

By the same measure, just because I can make a 2" group at 40 paces with it doesn't mean you automatically can too. Your hands aren't the same size as mine.

Your getting into skills, that is not this threads topic. Hand size has nothing to do with skill or size. Skill and good weapon fit along with mechanical accuracy of the firearm and ammo is what makes group sizes.

Every individual must find a weapon which works for their hand size and needs.

Amen.

....because she wasn't involved in the purchasing process!

100% correct. If only he had realized that his wife most likely had less upper body/hand strength, and may not have been able to work all pistols. She should have been involved in selection process where her particular needs could have been matched with an appropriate pistol.

[HighLander51]

How many women do you think shoot USPSA? Few thousand? Out of of the 150 million adult women in this country, your sample size is too tiny to be of any significance. The OP's issue was with the quoted person generality of women. I agree that generalities are not always correct, but they are correct much of the time.

And how would you know if you don't shoot competition? Which you don't....

I have instructed hundreds of students in the 44 years that I have been involved in competition, and I guarantee that I can take a newbie, willing to listen, to a 6" group at 7 yards on demand from the low ready under a shot timer in 20 minutes of training and 50 rounds. It's all the fundamentals, stance, grip, sight picture, and trigger control.

[G-forceJunkie]

And how would you know if you don't shoot competition? Which you don't....

Please refresh my memory on what competitions you think i have or have not shot. I have an IDPA plaque around here somewhere that says I was the California IDPA State champ, Expert division, SSP at one point in my life. But what does any of that have to do with the hand/arm strength of average female or male? Your drifting off topic.

I have instructed hundreds of students in the 44 years that I have been involved in competition, and I guarantee that I can take a newbie, willing to listen, to a 6" group at 7 yards on demand from the low ready under a shot timer in 20 minutes of training and 50 rounds. It's all the fundamentals, stance, grip, sight picture, and trigger control.

As have I, and I fully expect you would be able to as well. Could you still do that with a person who cannot cycle the slide? If they brought a gun to your training that they could not operate, would you not suggest they not try and find one that they can opperate?

[kaligaran]

I didn't realize using the inherent physical differences between the sexes when discussing particular physical abilitys was misogynistic. I suppose the soldiers in the threads about females in combat roles is misogynistic? Or the statement that men are, in general, stronger and faster? Show me an Olympic event based on physical strength and speed that is bested by a female. People are different. The sexes, in general, are build different. Stop trying to fight that biological fact just for arguments or PC sake.

We're not talking about weight lifting.
We're talking about the ability to rack a gun slide. Your argument is completely irrelevant for the topic of discussion.

I'm an average sized female (ok 1 inch taller than average) but small build. I have been shooting since I was 5' and 12 years old . I've never met a gun I can't rack and I've shot at least dozens of different types of guns.
I'll take the challenge happily any day.

[G-forceJunkie]

We're not talking about weight lifting.
We're talking about the ability to rack a gun slide.

Correct. We are talking about the ability to hold a pistol in one hand, and the slide in another and exert over 18 pounds of differential force in opposite directions. That is fundamentally "weight lifting" or an application of physical strength.

Your argument is completely irrelevant for the topic of discussion.

The OP asked a question. I replied that in _MY_ experience, the person she quoted was not totally incorrect. Sorry if my experiences differ from yours.

I'm an average sized female (ok 1 inch taller than average) but small build. I have been shooting since I was 5' and 12 years old . I've never met a gun I can't rack and I've shot at least dozens of different types of guns.
I'll take the challenge happily any day.

That is great. Most humans are in the same situation as you and can rack any pistol made. Some are not. In my experience, more of those that had trouble racking slides were female than male by a large margin. Thats the facts as presented to me (random, average students showing up for firearms instruction classes.) I taught an NRA Basic Pistol class this weekend. One female could not rack the slide on a Glock, Beretta 92, or a Kahr K9. She could rack the bolt on a Ruger 22/45 and slide on her Ruger SR22. She also could shoot a S&W 686 both SA and DA. Which handgun would you suggest this women keep for self defense? If I say revolver am I being misogynistic?
I'm done arguing this point, so anyone else can have the final word on this discussion. I agree that that assuming _ALL_ women can not work the slide of a pistol is wrong. I don't agree with the poster the OP quoted and his "90 of women cant rack kahrs." That is hogwash. I stand by the evidence that I have seen with my own two eyes: Some humans do not have the hand/arm/upper body strength to cycle all pistol slides. More of them tend to be female in my experience, which is logical considering the medical fact that human females , on average, tend to have less hand/arm/upper body strength than average males.

[SoulStealer]

I'm 5'10" 250 LBS and some time I have trouble racking my CZ's slide??

[kaligaran]

Ah, name calling. Excellent retort. The OP asked a question. I replied that in _MY_ experience, the person she quoted was not totally incorrect. Sorry if my experiences differ from yours.

I said the argument was idiotic. Not you. /sigh

And yes, apparently your experiences differ greatly from my own and apparently everyone else on this thread.

Sure, women biologically are not as strong as men. But again, we're talking about racking a slide.
There will be exceptions to every rule but not as a generality when it comes to this topic.

Which handgun would you suggest this women keep for self defense?

Whichever handgun she or he feels most comfortable with.
Every women I have ever known personally that has carried, prefer simiautomatics to revolvers for size reasons and capacity.
But it's a personal preference.

If I say revolver am I being misogynistic?

If it's because you state a general rule that a woman can't 'handle' racking the slide on a simi-auto, then yes. Because that's ridiculous.

I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree.
Because I'm going to assume we're both done with this conversation.

[safewaysecurity]

To be fair some women just can't rack slides and lack the grip strength. My mom bought me a 1911 and she almost couldn't pickit up from thw gun store because she ccouldn't perform the safety demonstration buy racking the slide back. It wasn't until I told her to cock the hammer first and then push the fram forward and pull the slide back as hard as she could that she was able to do it. But I agree, I don't like guys that think women should only own revolvers but I don't know anyone that thinks that way.

[guns4life]

Acting like revolvers are some kind of lesser weapon, suitable only for a woman is laughable. While a .38 in a 3" barrel is something any woman can manipulate effectively, one should not consider revolvers "girl guns". It's a disservice to revolvers and their capabilities, and women offended at the notion of using one think too highly of themselves IMO.