.22LR for self defense

[WMG]

I've always thought of the reliability argument as somewhat valid.

Regardless to whether the round is powerful enough you still have to keep in mind it's never going to be as reliable as centerfire.

I hear that's the reason some will go with the 25 auto over a 22lr. I am unaware if they make any guns in that any longer ...... 32acp seems to be the new 25 auto

[grantar2]

No i didnt just get a 10 and a 45 cause my bad guys are tougher they are guns i already have dumbazz.its what she prefers and not going to get here something she aint comfy with she has shot a 9mm and .380 and snubnose 38.

She also wants the 22 for a plinker when we go shooting.

The Marlin .22LR and the Ruger 10/22 are always a great choice for plinking. .22LR revolvers are around with 10 round capacity, and this negates the reliability problem since cycling is the biggest problem with .22LR automatics.

Remember the tenant that for some the recoil of more powerful rounds make them unsuitable due particularly to wrist injuries and arthritis.

As for snarky comments and responses lets remember the women's forum has slightly different rules than the other forums, especially when as men we are making contributions.

[movie zombie]

an interesting review on a modern .22 handgun:

http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-LCR22.htm

I respect this reviewer and have made purchases based on his experiences.
and, admittedly, i'm now lusting after this little Ruger!

eta: note towards the end of his review comments re CCW and health issues..........

[Volksgrenadier]

Advances in .22 ammo design have really upped its stopping power...

[Asphodel]

Now I need to be up front, I know this is going to send some people into orbit, especially among the guys who visit. But after a recent gun show where it a number of people turned out to have .22LR as well as .380ACP on their carry list, and one guy gave my wife a hard time because her favorite gun is her .22LR Walther P22, I thought I would post this insightful video link.

Now I know SPAM isn't an FBI ballistic gel block, and the producer didn't verify 12-18 inches of penetration through jean fabric and all. But I am pretty sure I wouldn't want to get hit by this little .22LR.

Turn's our many of the women we have had as customers over the last year suffer from carpal tunnel syndrome and recoil pain and grip are less a matter of conditioning, and more a result of injury.

For your review, comment, entertainment, and because the board has just been too quite. .22LR and 9mm vs a can of SPAM

That .22LR rifle may be a keeper too.

Hmmm.......you don't like this board being 'too quite'?

Alright, I'd agree that you picked a subject that will always draw opinions, to be sure......so here's one more for you..... : )

I think it has been pretty well established that 22LR is capable of killing a human being. For that matter, the original first commonly available cartridge revolver, the 1857-ish vintage first model Smith & Wesson, fired the original black powder .22 short, and was alleged to be a valid close-range defensive weapon. (remember, that was before antibiotics, hospital emergency services, etc., so just the thought of being shot with anything like that would have been a rather serious deterrent.)

If we consider the human assailant to be the large, strong 'prison-hardened' man referenced in another comment here, would the .22 stop him?......well, I don't know, I've never been in such a situation.....in theory, at least, I'm sufficiently well practiced with a revolver to hit him in the face with six rounds of .22 rather quickly......which, even if none of the projectiles were to go through into his brain-stem to kill him instantly, may well blind him, or cause so much pain that he'd be unable to concentrate on continuing an attack.......but thats all theory.....and some da*ned icky gruesome theory, to be sure.

The one thing which can be said for the humble .22 is that its the easiest handgun with which to practice, practice, practice, to be able to hit where one means to hit, from 'developed instinct' or so-called 'muscle memory', if one is under the sudden stress which any assailant, whatever his size, would provide. Its easy to theorise that hits with the .22 are to be preferred to misses with a .44 or .45.

Its a different situation entirely if one's assailant is Mr/Ms Pit-Bull (or any big canid, for that matter), Mr Wild Pig, or Mr/Ms Mountain Lion......note the terms of 'respect'.......I've a lot of respect for those teeth, and the muscle behind them. A .357, loaded hot, is a minimum, and .44 mag is better.....the .454 Casull would be better yet, of course.....remember the old Hallmark greeting-card adverts, something about 'if you care enough to send the very best?)

cheers

Carla

[six10]

movie zombie, check out the S&W Model 43C .22LR revolver. No internal lock, 8- round cylinder, was legal in CA when I bought mine in 2013.

OP, imo it's better to have a .22 than nothing at all. If that's the only caliber your wife is comfortable shooting, then go with it. And practice head shots at the range. (Not sure why maiming/disabling a threat is even on her mind? The raison d'etre for pulling a trigger in self-defense is not to "warn" or "slow" but to STOP.)

[CSACANNONEER]

i was told by a santa clara county sheriff that more people are killed by .22 than any other caliber......of course, that would include suicides, etc.

not my first choice of a SD round but i'd take it over throwing a pistol at a bad guy.

I've always heard the same thing and believe it to be true. However, .22lr is not known for stopping power. An attacker might die later but, unless it is a very well placed shot, a .22lr isn't going to drop a large mammal in it's tracks. That said, as a large male with a 1911 on my CCW, I also have a NAA revolver on my CCW. It makes a great little, reliable gun to carry shotshells in while carrying a semi auto too.

[WMG]

Hmmm.......you don't like this board being 'too quite'?

Alright, I'd agree that you picked a subject that will always draw opinions, to be sure......so here's one more for you..... : )

I think it has been pretty well established that 22LR is capable of killing a human being. For that matter, the original first commonly available cartridge revolver, the 1857-ish vintage first model Smith & Wesson, fired the original black powder .22 short, and was alleged to be a valid close-range defensive weapon. (remember, that was before antibiotics, hospital emergency services, etc., so just the thought of being shot with anything like that would have been a rather serious deterrent.)

If we consider the human assailant to be the large, strong 'prison-hardened' man referenced in another comment here, would the .22 stop him?......well, I don't know, I've never been in such a situation.....in theory, at least, I'm sufficiently well practiced with a revolver to hit him in the face with six rounds of .22 rather quickly......which, even if none of the projectiles were to go through into his brain-stem to kill him instantly, may well blind him, or cause so much pain that he'd be unable to concentrate on continuing an attack.......but thats all theory.....and some da*ned icky gruesome theory, to be sure.

The one thing which can be said for the humble .22 is that its the easiest handgun with which to practice, practice, practice, to be able to hit where one means to hit, from 'developed instinct' or so-called 'muscle memory', if one is under the sudden stress which any assailant, whatever his size, would provide. Its easy to theorise that hits with the .22 are to be preferred to misses with a .44 or .45.

Its a different situation entirely if one's assailant is Mr/Ms Pit-Bull (or any big canid, for that matter), Mr Wild Pig, or Mr/Ms Mountain Lion......note the terms of 'respect'.......I've a lot of respect for those teeth, and the muscle behind them. A .357, loaded hot, is a minimum, and .44 mag is better.....the .454 Casull would be better yet, of course.....remember the old Hallmark greeting-card adverts, something about 'if you care enough to send the very best?)

cheers

Carla

Awesome , I'm glad to see the point on the ability to practice , certainly can not underestimate such a thing.
Let's talk about the 6rds to the face , I'd suppose if we looked at the history of people on the street shooting each other "leos and non-leos also , we'd find often the bad guy isn't hit ideally "if at all".
I'd wager that it is often not intentional , but some of it being how the best laid plans seem to fly out the window when things go horribly wrong......
Now let's pretend we don't have the super sensitive ninjas skills often touted on the net , you know the ones , where no one gets within 3 feet of you ever and you always have the sun to your back type of thing , after all not ALL bad guys look and or act the part , true there are some signs at times....
Now we know bad guys often have us behind the 8 ball since they get to choose when to notify us of an attack ....... according to the history of street gun fights ... after all we just can't hold everyone we come across at gun point all day , so now perhaps the first notification you have that you may have to slap leather is when you get doubled over at the waist in the head lock or take that mike tyson blow across the chin ....... it does happen.
So now maybe the 1st shot/only shot is that one we get up through the center mass or whatever we can find part of the bad guy ...........my 6 shots to the face plan suddenly becomes very invalid at that point.
Now maybe , just maybe the bad guy has other ideas , and the reason your shooting is well , he intended harm to you also .....so what about him?
We can't assume he's not taking actions against us at this time either.
Sometimes you'll note in gun fights the bad guy takes a shot in the forearm/hand/etc.......... why?
well often these things are out in front of him , cause remember he's out to do you no good which is why you are shooting .......... so he can often have these things in front of him giving that shot you just took as everything went to pot another item to punch through.
I often see people talking how their carry gun has an empty chamber , after all , racking a gun is done quickly and they are ninja extra fast.
But often , in a class and in our training , right people! we train to get off that shot while our another hand is busy , such as holding off the bad guy , holding back a child , holding whatever a door,etc.
And at times we practice and are taught contact shootin , cause that's all we may get.
Now these are useful , as the 6 shots to the face regardless of caliber aren't what we may get the chance to deal with.

Key point here ....
We only get the fight we were given ....... not the one we wanted.


22lr useful? hopefully yes.

Full disclosure , not so much any more but there were times when the only firearm I had on my person was a HP-22 with an unloaded chamber.

useful? ....yes , hopefully.
However like I've been trying to say , I would not be under any illusion that I was not taking a higher risk gamble than with another gun/caliber.
I was gambling that
A) I would not need a gun
B) If I did , it would hopefully be enough.
Not the brightest way to go about but my choice and was well aware of the risk , hence the term "gamble"

And packing a HP-22 in the back pocket with empty chamber isn't what I would try to sell someone on if they asked about a defensive firearm.
I'd try to make their odds a bit better.

And just to be clear , I think you are a great guy , good looking , handsome and probably richer and smarter than me all day , everyday ..... I love you like a brother .......
And I will try and short up my ramblings.....

[Kokopelli]

I have a 1911, but it's too uncomfortable for my petite wife. My 9mm is the same for her. So, I got her a small-ish Romanian Tokarev, but it is difficult for her to work the slide.

Recently, I bought a Walther P22CA as a plinker for myself. My wife took it from me and has claimed it for her own. She loves the thing. I load it with CCI MiniMag HP ammo. She is comfortable and accurate with it. It is reliable, too.

FWIW...

[TripleThreat]

22lr to the head is a game ender.

Follow up shots are a no brainer and capacity and size make it a consideration for CCW.

Triple

[ScottsBad]

- Shot placement is more critical with a .22. Bad when you are most likely to miss.
- You are less likely to incapacitate a determined or doped assailant.
- .22 is more likely to glance off a hard to penetrate target.
- .22 will not penetrate a wall and leave enough velocity/kinetic energy. (Sometimes you have to shoot through cover/concealment especially if they are.)
- .22 rimfire is a less reliable round especially in semi-auto weapons.

I would never trust my life to a .22LR.

I would suggest the FN Five Seven, but California makes it impossible to own one. The Five Seven is very low recoil high velocity centerfire round that is an effective penetrator.

.380 ACP is the minimum from my perspective. Use a +P for defense.

The best designs are in 9mm, choose a single stack with a smaller grip diameter. There are videos of people being shot with a 9mm and still being able to attack and/or run away.

That's just my opinion, my wife likes her Walther PPQ M2 9mm with the small backstrap (Also impossible to get in CA now).

In revolvers you might want to look at .38 Special as good alternative to a Semi-auto. I'd rather have six .38 Special rounds than 10 22lr rounds any day of the week.

[ScottsBad]

I have a 1911, but it's too uncomfortable for my petite wife. My 9mm is the same for her. So, I got her a small-ish Romanian Tokarev, but it is difficult for her to work the slide.

Recently, I bought a Walther P22CA as a plinker for myself. My wife took it from me and has claimed it for her own. She loves the thing. I load it with CCI MiniMag HP ammo. She is comfortable and accurate with it. It is reliable, too.

FWIW...

Right, at the end of the video he recommends to NOT rely on a .22 for self defense.

[ScottsBad]

22lr to the head is a game ender.

Follow up shots are a no brainer and capacity and size make it a consideration for CCW.

Triple

Nice, but you are taught to shoot center mass, it is much harder to make head shots..

[jeremiah12]

- Shot placement is more critical with a .22. Bad when you are most likely to miss.
- You are less likely to incapacitate a determined or doped assailant.
- .22 is more likely to glance off a hard to penetrate target.
- .22 will not penetrate a wall and leave enough velocity/kinetic energy. (Sometimes you have to shoot through cover/concealment especially if they are.)
- .22 rimfire is a less reliable round especially in semi-auto weapons.

I would never trust my life to a .22LR.

You are missing the original point, some people have hand strength issues or wrist issues and are unable to shoot a higher caliber gun. For those people, a .22LR is better than nothing.

My father is a prime example. For years he shot everything up to .44 mag. He reloaded and was a gun collector. Because of health issues he can no longer even shoot a 9mm without dropping it because of the recoil. For him, his only option left is a .22LR revolver. He keeps 4 at the ready.

I can tell you from personal experience that .22LR can work for self defense. It worked for me nearly 40 years ago when the BG had a much bigger gun and the only gun I had access to was a Remington Nylon 66. It was not my gun but I spent a lot of time shooting it and was at a point that I always hit what I aimed at. I did make a head shot because I knew that would stop the BG and this BG was not going to stop until he killed me or I incapacitated him.

That is why I continue to practice even today. I own guns of many different calibers, but none are good for self-defense if I cannot hit what I am aiming at.

[44fred]

Same arguments by the same thought process by different (and some the same) people.
The points given are always the same.

Not enough strength/ability to shoot anything else. I get that.
Better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. True.
22lr kills more people than any other cartridge. Myth.
Shoot 'em in the head, game over. Really? Can you shoot that well under extreme pressure?
Wife really likes the 22lr. So what! This isn't about "liking anything". It's life and death...your wife's death. Think about it.
It goes on and on and on.
My $.02....Just about any handgun defensive round isn't going to cut it unless you practice, practice, practice under stress. Even then you're going to have luck on your side. Most perps will hightail it if you fight back, even with a pellet gun. They see/here gun and they gone.