New "Rules" for PPT?

[Josh3239]

Sounds like they were trying to convince you to go somewhere else to do a PPT. I've been in Gunworld, never bought anything, but I hear a lot of complaints. PPTs take slightly longer, fee is capped so the store makes next to nothing on it. They "taxed" you for not buying anything by forcing you to buy locks. The lock rule is very simple; manufacturer includs one, you buy an approved one with the gun, you bring an approved one with a receipt showing you purchased it in the last 30 days, or you sign a gun safe affidavit (later is for long guns only). If they want to add to it they can, it is their store. And I hardly doubt the anti-2A DOJ will care that you were forced to buy locks for guns. A good amount of manufacturers include CA approved gun locks so most people aren't aware. I seriously doubt you'll win anything in court or with the DOJ; it is their store and their rues, if you don't like it there are plenty of stores in the SFV/LA area.

As for vehicle reg; 1) they were trying to tell you to go somewhere else for a PPT and 2) again their store, their rules.

[KIMBER8400]

Had first hand experince with the aforementioned business, I dont want to get into details as per forum rules; but I managed to get a full refund.

[SoCal Bob]

I did a PPT of a .22 rifle a couple of months ago at Iron Sights. They also required a lock for a rifle and said that they were told they had to during their last ATF audit. I called the local ATF office and talked to an inspector. I asked him when the lock requirement changed and he said it had not, that it was only for handguns and the long gun was up to state rules. I told Iron Sights when I picked up the rifle and gave them the phone number to call and verify but I don't know if they did. Sounds like ATF agents may be making up new rules when they feel like it.

Iron Sights also requires a second form of ID for long guns and makes the pick up day the eleventh day.

[pklonn]

Kimber8400...can you email me with what you did? Pklonn@verizon.net

[tenpercentfirearms]

They will probably not refund you at pick up as they have to show that they met the lock requirement. You would need to try and get the lock refund after the fact.

They might simply have a "no lock refunds" policy.

Probably the only thing you could get them on would be requiring you to buy their locks if they claim that is what the law says. However, if they just make it company policy, you are kind of stuck. It would be a much bigger issue of what is an additional fee to the PPT and are mandatory lock purchases adding to the fee? The problem is the law does require you have a lock and/or to have a safe affidavit, so telling the dealer they have to provide a free lock when they pay for them isn't right either.

I think the best thing for you to do is not do PPTs or any business with them for that matter. Otherwise, you will probably be facing a huge uphill battle. It is your time and energy, I wish you the best of luck.

[CrazyCobraManTim]

Hey all - I had similar issue today. I completed a PPT pickup today, and brought the (2) cable locks the seller provided to me several weeks ago to secure these pistols.

The store stated that I could not use those locks, that I needed "new" locks purchased within the last 30 days (proof of purchase required), per state PC. WTH? This certainly isn't my first pistol purchase or PPT xfer, and I've never been told I can't use an existing lock that I brought with me, nor could I use a safe affidavit for handguns (only for long guns). I asked them to show me the PC that stated handguns had to be xfer'd with ONLY new locks, and they showed me a Calguns Foundation website. Instead of debating the situation, I popped the $20 for the locks to jailbreak the kids.

Now I have two more locks hanging with a dozen+ others on a wall.

Am I crazy, or was the store off-base stating this was the ONLY way I could leave the store with these pistols? I either owe them an apology or the other way around....

Stewing......

[chillincody]

I always thought locks were not a issue until pick up date ??

[pklonn]

We should start a business renting locks...give the customer a new receipt and the lock (with a deposit), and when they are done jailbreaking the weapon with the appropriate paperwork, return the locks to the rental agency<LOL>. Really, it's just a racket to garner more $$ since they don't like doing PPT's. The handgun DOES require a lock to leave the store, but no rule in the rule book that it must be a new one. Same thing for a safe affidavit requiring a receipt for the purchase of the safe...all made up rules to enrich the shop owner. I took the advise of another calgunner above, I simply will never guy anything from the putzes at gunworld in Burbank. That way I only get screwed once by that shop. I did find them pretty darned arrogant and they were unable to produce anything that said the locks were required...and my PPT was for long guns. A lesson learned. If more folks just stopped doing business with them, perhaps they would reevaluate their "policy". Not sure of their markup, but I would think that losing even one new sale would cost them more than the $40 they stole from me (less the value of the locks of course). Face it, it's a racket and we have little leverage. Enjoy your new toys.....

[pklonn]

Actually I even have one better in this lock debacle...I took the locks I had to purchase at Gun World into Turners Oxnard to use one of them for a new handgun PPT. The receipt was less than 30 days old. Turners told me that I couldn't do that because the lock I purchased was for another firearm (as noted on the receipt from Gun World). So even though you don't need the locks when the firearms are in a safe, I couldn't use a new, unwrapped, still sealed lock with a receipt within 30 days for my last PPT. Go figure. At least I made them give me the most expensive locks in their store and not the cheap POS cable locks.

[CrazyCobraManTim]

Every day I want to leave this place more and more.... fuming....

[kemasa]

The store stated that I could not use those locks, that I needed "new" locks purchased within the last 30 days (proof of purchase required), per state PC. WTH? This certainly isn't my first pistol purchase or PPT xfer, and I've never been told I can't use an existing lock that I brought with me, nor could I use a safe affidavit for handguns (only for long guns). I asked them to show me the PC that stated handguns had to be xfer'd with ONLY new locks, and they showed me a Calguns Foundation website. Instead of debating the situation, I popped the $20 for the locks to jailbreak the kids.

Now I have two more locks hanging with a dozen+ others on a wall.

Am I crazy, or was the store off-base stating this was the ONLY way I could leave the store with these pistols? I either owe them an apology or the other way around....

If the locks had been included with the firearm, then it would have been acceptable. Otherwise, you need a receipt within 30 days. The Feds require a lock, which is why the safe affidavit is an issue with handguns.

You could buy a lock from a friend and get a receipt. Some FFLs also do lock exchanges.

The store was not off-base. You could have also bought a safe.

[mrdd]

Hey all - I had similar issue today. I completed a PPT pickup today, and brought the (2) cable locks the seller provided to me several weeks ago to secure these pistols.

The store stated that I could not use those locks, that I needed "new" locks purchased within the last 30 days (proof of purchase required), per state PC. WTH? This certainly isn't my first pistol purchase or PPT xfer, and I've never been told I can't use an existing lock that I brought with me, nor could I use a safe affidavit for handguns (only for long guns). I asked them to show me the PC that stated handguns had to be xfer'd with ONLY new locks, and they showed me a Calguns Foundation website. Instead of debating the situation, I popped the $20 for the locks to jailbreak the kids.

Now I have two more locks hanging with a dozen+ others on a wall.

Am I crazy, or was the store off-base stating this was the ONLY way I could leave the store with these pistols? I either owe them an apology or the other way around....

Stewing......

The problem is that the seller had to provide the locks to the FFL, not the buyer. If the buyer supplies the locks, they must have been purchased within the last 30 days.

23635. (a) Any firearm sold or transferred in this state by a licensed firearms dealer, including a private transfer through a dealer, and any firearm manufactured in this state, shall include or be accompanied by a firearm safety device

[CrazyCobraManTim]

??

The seller provided (2) locks that met CA DOJ requirements upon the sale day. Why was that NOT acceptable? I find it convenient that the store did not bother to not advise us to lock each other's firearms (which I typically do so no one can misuse or disassemble my personal property during the 10-day honeymoon). Using some of the methodologies listed above, it's conceivable that every future purchaser of a single firearm would have to purchase new locks each time the weapon is sold? I have multiple CA DOJ safes, I'm certainly not buying a safe from an FFL each time I decide to pick up a new or traded item.

What is wrong with using the (3) previously 100% acceptable cable locks from the (3) weapons that simply changed hands between (2) FFL's with a 3rd FFL having to do our paperwork (since CA doesn't trust 03 FFL's and I frankly don't trust CA). This is lunacy....

[superbing]

this is not a new rule, it has been there since I started doing PPTs

[mrdd]

The seller provided (2) locks that met CA DOJ requirements upon the sale day. Why was that NOT acceptable? I find it convenient that the store did not bother to not advise us to lock each other's firearms (which I typically do so no one can misuse or disassemble my personal property during the 10-day honeymoon). Using some of the methodologies listed above, it's conceivable that every future purchaser of a single firearm would have to purchase new locks each time the weapon is sold? I have multiple CA DOJ safes, I'm certainly not buying a safe from an FFL each time I decide to pick up a new or traded item.

What is wrong with using the (3) previously 100% acceptable cable locks from the (3) weapons that simply changed hands between (2) FFL's with a 3rd FFL having to do our paperwork (since CA doesn't trust 03 FFL's and I frankly don't trust CA). This is lunacy....

But you said that you brought the locks with you at pick up. If the seller had given the guns and the locks to the FFL when the DROS was initiated, that would be a different matter.