New "Rules" for PPT?

[pklonn]

I just did a PPT at Gun World in Burbank. I had originally scheduled it for Guns Direct just down the street, but when I arrived...they were closed even though it was their normal and posted shop hours (bad boys!!). In any case, after waiting in line for over an hour, we start the PPT process then they drop the bombshell...first they said I needed two DROS fees because I had two guns (rifles). I corrected them and said that we could do both on one DROS...I won that argument. Then when the fees were to be paid, I got zinged for 2 locks at $19.95 each plus tax, so my "fees" for this transaction were $78.57 for two long guns. They said that ATF was in their store and said they had to provide locks, I said I would be returning with two locks when I get them out of jail, they said I had to buy their locks because any lock that I bring may not be specifically for that gun, it might be used on another at home. I responded with the possibility of the safe waiver document that states I have a compliant safe, they said no...had to buy the locks.

Being the negative person that I am, it is my belief that this is NOT the law and that they are simply trying to recoup some additional fees by forcing me to buy the locks. I have recently had two other DROS transactions, one handgun, one long gun, and neither of those two licensees (businesses) required me to buy their locks.

They also required that I show them my vehicle registration which I thought was only a requirement for handgun transfers.

My questions:
1. Is there a law that requires that I purchase a lock for these weapons on a PPT?
2. Is there a low that requires me to show my vehicle registration for long gun PPT's?
3. If the answer to "1" is no, how can I get my money back from them?

Thanks in advance to the FFL experts out there...I just think I was scammed, but I've been wrong before. If in fact it is a scam, buyer beware at this business. They won't be getting any more of mine, and if I hadn't already had over an hour invested in line...they wouldn't have gotten this business either. Just now, reading my receipt, they even miscalculated my pickup date...it's 11 days from now, not 10....sheesh!!

[kemasa]

There is NO Federal law regarding locks for long guns, only for handguns. The Feds have not published the procedures, as required, so it is a bit of an unknown, but from what I was told, the BATF is only to do something if they personally see a person leaving a FFL with a handgun without a lock.

1) CA requires a lock with a receipt within 30 days or a safe (affidavit), Feds don't require anything except for handguns.
2) No, not unless your ID does not match your current residence address
3) How did you pay? You could report them to the DOJ for collecting excessive fees or you could sue them in small claims court.

[pklonn]

Well, it looks like a scam to me.

1. That's how I understood the laws...thanks to this forum
2. My ID was my CDL which matches where I live and only address for past 14 years.
3. I paid with debit card as I didn't bring enough cash because of these extra fees.

I think I'll give the DOJ a call tomorrow. Is there a "friendly" at DOJ who could be reached, or do I just wait for the obligatory two hours on hold and try to find someone?

Thanks for your help on this.

In the interim...I would stay away from Gun World, or at least be forewarned.

Paul

[Williamhlee]

I see most stores now put down (and require) 11th day as the pick up as many people make the mistake of coming in to pick up their gun on the 10th day but the clock has not meet a minimum of ten complete 24-hour days. This is to avoid customer being disappointed or arriving earlier than 240 hours clock time.

miscalculated my pickup date...it's 11 days from now, not 10....sheesh!!

[Williamhlee]

$19.95 for a lock sounds expensive but again depending on what brand or unique feature about it. The standard gun lock with a soft bendable 8" to 12" long cable that I've seen in gun stores are around $4.99 to $9.99 range. I think you got taken advantage with $19.995 each unless it is some sort of name brand or unique feature to it. If you sign the paper that says you have a safe at home (with model #), you don't need to buy any lock at the store. Next time, stopby at Target or Walmart first to buy a lock first when buying a handgun if that gun manufacturer doesn't already include one in the box.

I am pretty sure you can't return the lock back to the store as it is considered you have used it already (even it was stored in the store with the gun). Think about... why should the store allow you to refund it as that is their profit already.

I got zinged for 2 locks at $19.95 each plus tax,

[pklonn]

Email just sent to Gun World stating the requirements of the CA DOJ and BATF requesting that they refund me the cost of the two locks and tax when I pick up the rifles on 2/2/2013. Let's see what they have to say. IF they give me the runaround, I'll file a complaint with the DOJ. Once I have hard copies of the specific laws involved, so I'm sure I get my court costs back, I'll mention to them about Small Claims Court. It would be well worth their time just to refund vs. having to show up. Of course if there is an attorney out there who would like a small class action suit, I'd be glad to be the plaintiff.....I just want my $40+ back. IF they respond, I'll post the email.

[ElDub1950]

I see most stores now put down (and require) 11th day as the pick up as many people make the mistake of coming in to pick up their gun on the 10th day but the clock has not meet a minimum of ten complete 24-hour days. This is to avoid customer being disappointed or arriving earlier than 240 hours clock time.

Yeah, last time I bought I noticed my guy wrote the pickup date/time. He said he was going to have to start making the 11th day the pickup day because he spent too much time arguing with customers who showed up the minute the store opened on the 10th day, instead of the time he wrote.

[fredridge]

Last gone I bought I was told you had to have the lock when you do the ppt, couldn't wait until pick up. Not sure how true this was, but had the original lock so didn't matter

[jonc]

I ppt a striped lower I had to buy a lock!!!

[kemasa]

Last gone I bought I was told you had to have the lock when you do the ppt, couldn't wait until pick up. Not sure how true this was, but had the original lock so didn't matter

There is nothing that requires a lock during the waiting period, only when it is delivered. I suspect it is said so that you can't go and buy a lock elsewhere.

[Brandon04GT]

Any reason why you didn't go to Aegis instead?

BTW, I think you should have emailed them/made a complaint about the issue AFTER you picked up your guns....you don't want to get them upset and have them "play" with your guns in the backroom...

[pklonn]

Valid point. Well, they are well used firearms, not the collector quality I normally buy. Just wanted a couple I can take out and fire without worrying about the first scratch...so to speak. I'm sure that they aren't that anal retentive to do something like that. At least let's hope so. I'm not familiar with Aegis, didn't even know the name until you mentioned it. I'm in Thousand Oaks, typically do my buying/selling in this valley...besides, tax is less<grin>.

[Williamhlee]

You are not gonna win if I have to put a bet on it. ;-0

You gonna spend $3000 for lawyer fees or spend 2 days in a small claim court and filing fees for a $40 lock issue. I don't think any lawyer will take the case just on a contingency basis. I know it can be a principle thing because you were given a false pretense to buy locks. ;-) I've seen many times, the store will say it is the store's policy. You are doing business with the store. It is a private business. Not a govt agency. DOJ rules are the minimum standard the store must follow, and the store can add any additional policy or rules they want as long as it doesn't violate any existing laws. That is my understanding anyway. If you don't like the store policy or practice, you don't do business with them, and move on. The store probably could tell you that you may cancel the PPT that is in process and you will stand to loose $35 in PPT/DROS fees as they are nonrefundable, and lock cost of $40 as it can't be returned because it has been used. Now you are out $75 and still no gun transferred to you. ;-)

Just put a review about the store on Yelp.com and just move on.

Email just sent to Gun World stating the requirements of the CA DOJ and BATF requesting that they refund me the cost of the two locks and tax when I pick up the rifles on 2/2/2013. Let's see what they have to say. IF they give me the runaround, I'll file a complaint with the DOJ. Once I have hard copies of the specific laws involved, so I'm sure I get my court costs back, I'll mention to them about Small Claims Court. It would be well worth their time just to refund vs. having to show up. Of course if there is an attorney out there who would like a small class action suit, I'd be glad to be the plaintiff.....I just want my $40+ back. IF they respond, I'll post the email.

[kemasa]

A lawyer is not required as it is a small claims sized issue. You would get the court fees back.

Small claims is more about the point than the money.

[paul0660]

You gonna spend $3000 for lawyer fees or spend 2 days in a small claim court and filing fees for a $40 lock issue.

As Kemasa said, not true.

William H. Lee, I am pretty sure you don't want to be taken seriously. True? Maybe you *LOL* paid a lawyer once that much for that purpose..........like the gun lock on a long gun purchase.......unnecessary.