Gun resold during 10 day wait

[blakdawg]

SWalt, what gun shop have you successfully run? I'm just curious since you feel entitled to be condescending to a successful LGS owner and one of our fiercest 2A advocates in the state.

I realize that many people in the gun community think that a gun store owner is the pinnacle of legal knowledge, and must not be challenged nor questioned, but SWalt is right about the black letter law of contracts.

It may be that the damages here don't justify the time and expense of litigation, but getting away with something because lawyers are expensive and litigation is frustrating and slow doesn't change the underlying rights and obligations.

If party A agrees to sell a gun serial numbered 12345 to Y for $Z dollars, and Y pays as agreed, A is obligated to deliver the gun; and if he cannot, to provide A with the benefit of the bargain (e.g., an equivalent gun), not just a refund of the purchase price.

Usually this isn't that exciting - but where the value of the gun may have doubled or tripled between the beginning and the end of the 10 day wait, it can be interesting. Not bet-your-house interesting, but this may cost someone a couple thousand dollars, and more than that if the buyer can find an argument (such as a violation of CA Business & Professions Code 17200, or another consumer protection statute) for liability that would provide that the business has to pay his attorney's fees. In that context, the business is potentially on the hook to pay both sides' attorneys, as well as the damages, and it would probably make sense for them to suck it up and write a settlement check. The "fighting is a pain in the ***, better just give up" argument cuts both ways.

[tenpercentfirearms]

Take who to court?

The OP take the gun dealer to court. How else would you handle a breach of contract if the gun dealer isn't willing to work with you?

If you are in business and don't understand what is or isn't a contract, best you learn.

I understand it. How is the OP going to prove it? Further, what are the gun stores policies on and written notices regarding cancellations and other such issues?

If all we have are verbal instructions, you are going to have an uphill battle in court. It would further be interesting to see what the sales order/receipt says.

That is a lot of trouble for not getting your rifle. If the OP decides it is worth his time to pursue it, let us know how it goes.

Also let us know if you report it stolen or if you contact the ATF or DOJ.

[kantstudien]

DROS means nothing with regard to long guns. No serial numbers are filed, and DOJ has no record of what long gun was transferred (unlike with handguns).

So while it is possible that "mistakes happen," it is a pretty big mistake and if I were the FFL I would be trying my darndest to make it up to you in some way, especially since AR/AK variants are not going to be in stock anytime soon.

My guess is they decided to raise the price 50% since you paid, so your AR got "misplaced" and they will refund your money so they can make more on the same rifle.

This is why I take a pic of the serial # of every gun I purchase right when it is DROSed so there is no problem on pickup. Name the store if they don't make it right for you.

[philobeddoe]

Take who to court? I am only stating basic contract law and not referring to anything else. The store offered the rifle for sale, OP accepted the offer and fulfilled his portion of the contract, gave them his payment and fulfilled the other conditions, filling out his DROS, etc. The store is obligated to fulfill their part of the contract. The only other part of the contract is, he isn't a prohibited person. If he is prohibited, then by function of law you can't sell to him, its an illegal contract. Simple. No different than any other business transaction.

If you are in business and don't understand what is or isn't a contract, best you learn.

if he's prohibited it's not an illegal contract,
passing the DROS is a condition precedent

OP paid for the rifle, listed by s/n ... that is a contract and the seller is obligated to fulfill upon satisfying the DROS, condition precedent

even if the shop made a mistake it is a breach of contract
not wanting to continue the intellectual exercise, but the OP can cover ...
by finding a like or same rifle even at a higher prices and suing for the difference ... not worth the trouble, but that's the law

stolen rifle? don't think so
even if the dealer sold it out from under him

nevertheless, the dealer may have violated the terms of his FFL or CA or Federal law, IDK b/c I am not a dealer and don't know the law

I don't think you should have walked out the door w/o your rifle, your money, a replacement rifle or a guarantee for a replacement rifle with dealer covering the cost differential.

Suggestion, see what the dealer has to say on Wednesday

small claims court? suggestion, ignore any post that suggests small claims court

[jhaselton]

Sounds like a bunch of things you cannot prove to me. IMO, your best bet is to be calm and deal with it like an adult. Give the dealer the benefit of the doubt and the opportunity to make it right. The cops and alphabet agencies won't do anything to him so don't waste your time. You'll either get your money back or a rifle. That's all you deserve.

[Eddy's Shooting Sports]

Sounds like this dealer is a douche, but I agree with Wes and Toby, there is not much recourse legally. A dealer can refuse to deliver a firearm to anyone and as long as he gives your money back, you're hosed.

After quickly reading the thread, I still saw no mention of who the dealer was, so as far as I'm concerned, it never happened.

[SWalt]

SWalt, what gun shop have you successfully run? I'm just curious since you feel entitled to be condescending to a successful LGS owner and one of our fiercest 2A advocates in the state.

There is no disrespect meant at all and I apologize if it was taken as that or condescending. There is nothing personal meant towards tenpercent in this and I'm sure he has done wayyy more than me as far as 2A rights go. The OP asked about his options and I answered. Any store or business should be upfront and honest with their customers, if its a simple mistake, then make good on it. Simple. If someone offered more for the same rifle and the store wanted to make more money off another customer and shirk their obligation to make good on what was promised to the first, isn't that being dishonest and shady? (Nothing I said implies any business here is doing that).

I am a licensed CA contractor since 93. As a contractor, I am under obligation to fulfill any contract I sign or imply. I chose to be educated and to learn what that involves, including knowing the difference of what is a contract and what is not. If I promise 1 thing to a customer, but I do not perform according to the contract, my customer has no recourse?? You know they do. I know what liability I incur when I do work. If I do not do things to code and a customer has damages because of my neglect, I am liable. When acting in the capacity of President and CEO, I know the words that come out of my mouth can incur liability. IN the years I have been in business, I have never been sued, although I can say a few customers have screwed me over by non payment after I performed my end of the contract. So in short, I have some clue. Very little but some.

You asked and I simply answered,please don't try to read anything more into it.

[SWalt]

The OP take the gun dealer to court. How else would you handle a breach of contract if the gun dealer isn't willing to work with you?

I understand it. How is the OP going to prove it? Further, what are the gun stores policies on and written notices regarding cancellations and other such issues?

If all we have are verbal instructions, you are going to have an uphill battle in court. It would further be interesting to see what the sales order/receipt says.

That is a lot of trouble for not getting your rifle. If the OP decides it is worth his time to pursue it, let us know how it goes.

Also let us know if you report it stolen or if you contact the ATF or DOJ.

Very true. The hassle factor comes into play and can be long and drawn out. Always better to try to work it out with them first and see if they come up with a solution that both agree to. But some stores (talking in general, any type of store) just dig in their heals and give the customer short shift. It leaves you only a few options. I have an AR in jail and if it gets resold before I pick it up, then I would be put in the same situation and would have to consider what route, if any, to take. I never had any problems with a dealer however, and don't think there will be.

I don't think reporting a customer dispute to ATF would go very far either, after all its just a dispute, why use agency resources for it? Wouldn't make sense from my view point.

[burndup]

small claims court? suggestion, ignore any post that suggests small claims court

This. My initimate knowledge of SCC workings is stale, from when I sued a property management company in 1998 for running up a false laundry list of things to deduct out of my security deposit from when I moved out of an apartment.

Just one example, They had cited a multi-hundred dollar charge for pest fumigation. I went back to the place and took a picture through the window of the two cans of raid fogger.

I had other slam-dunk bits of evidence of their blatant theivery, the presentation in court went awesome, binders full of copies of letter and documents, pictures on a poster board, etc. The judge even said I did a better job then a lot of paid criminal defenders he sees often ,etc. etc.

Bottom line I got a whole hundred bucks when I got notice by mail of the judgement, aka, totally screwed by the court.

That judge can find and award whatever the heck (and as little) as he wants.

You sue in SCC, you get a self-rightous libtard America-hating anti-gun judge, you're automagically screwed from the get-go.

Hopefully that doesn't happen to the OP, and everything works out swell.

I think though, that even if the situation is resolved amicably, the OP should still out the shop when its all over. Even if the seller makes good, future customers should be aware they need to keep a close eye on the tricky bastard.

Personally, I wouldn't want to deal with such a place, even if they made it right in the end. There are lots of LGS's, especially where I live, if any of them started getting shady, I'd hope they'd flame out, and that business would instead go to the stand-up guys down the block. With things the way they are, none of us can really afford having any bad apples around, be they gun sellers, or gun owners.

my two cents...

[five.five-six]

" Gun resold during 10 day wait " It's the thread that just keeps giving.

[HapaMan]

i am going with this ^^^^^

as he claims to have been screwed and wont name the shop to protect others....

I am thinking the same thing.

[bruceflinch]

call the doj report it stolen even though its a riffle prob never be found

You obviously didn't read the whole thread..
And you obviously flunked Grammar....

[ArmedCMT]

I'm sorry if this is a silly question, but what's going on with prices 3x in a matter of 10 days? I don't really have an interest in AR/AK so is there some new law effecting them or something?

ten%.... is there anything you can suggest that a buyer can do to protect themself from something similar happening? Will taking a picture of the sn prove helpful if something were to happen?

OP.... can we at least get the area that the shop is in? I'm in the market for a shotgun and would really like to avoid this place.

[Packy14]

Name or stop wasting our time with this bs post

[stitchnicklas]

well no response back after his 9th post on calguns ...i am going to go ahead and call this one as it is....


uber-

maybe even a dreaded "brady troll"