Straw sale..

[adan10/22t]

I'm seriously sick of the customers who think we cannot identify a straw sale in the making, is there something out there that can let us do a "participating party" dros? just so we can run a check on the suspected individual, and possibly void the transaction by lack of interest? of course this would only be done at discretion.

[Cokebottle]

If you suspect that the buyer is not being honest on the 4473, then by all means, you are within your rights to refuse the sale.

But be careful, sometimes what appears to be a straw purchase may not be.
My wife has processed DROS on two guns. I was the one who handed the CC to the cashier.
It is also legal to purchase a gun as a gift for someone else.


But ya... I've seen it... 5' 2" woman who can barely lift the .44 "Deagle" stumbing through the not-quite-so-safe handling demonstration, all while her overweight, tatted up Cholo boyfriend is trying on holsters.

[jtmkinsd]

^^^This. If I even get a "vibe" that something screwy is going on...chances are, there is something screwy going on. I've no problem stopping the transaction at any point, and telling the customer "sorry, but I'm not going to proceed with this transaction". I will offer to ship the firearm back to where it came from at my expense, and tell them to take the business someplace else.

[SixPointEight]

If you suspect that the buyer is not being honest on the 4473, then by all means, you are within your rights to refuse the sale.

But be careful, sometimes what appears to be a straw purchase may not be.
My wife has processed DROS on two guns. I was the one who handed the CC to the cashier.
It is also legal to purchase a gun as a gift for someone else.


But ya... I've seen it... 5' 2" woman who can barely lift the .44 "Deagle" stumbing through the not-quite-so-safe handling demonstration, all while her overweight, tatted up Cholo boyfriend is trying on holsters.

IMO, husband/wife are pretty much good to go. All the time I see husband looking at guns, picking 2 or 3, bringing the wife in to pick and he pays. Sometimes they come in together, he does the DROS, picks the gun, then she hands the credit card. If the last name matches, then I just presume they share an account and she's in charge(is that really a stretch? )

[kemasa]

I had a problem years ago and when I asked questions, the supposed buyer said that it was none of my business, which made it really easy to decide to cancel the transaction. I shipped the firearm back on his dime, even though I could have sold it and saved him some money, but I did not want to have anything to do with the firearm that he had purchased.

Husband/wife is NOT pretty much good to go and is one which can be a serious problem. If the husband is prohibited and the wife is buying it for the husband, then it is a straw purchase. I heard a story from the CA DOJ in which Walmart had a transaction where the husband was denied and then the wife came in and did the transfer. Now, this is very clear in that case, but in other cases is might not be. Often, it is not a problem, but the question is how do you know? I suspect it is easier to get a spouse to do the transfer than someone else.

[Cokebottle]

IMO, husband/wife are pretty much good to go. All the time I see husband looking at guns, picking 2 or 3, bringing the wife in to pick and he pays. Sometimes they come in together, he does the DROS, picks the gun, then she hands the credit card. If the last name matches, then I just presume they share an account and she's in charge(is that really a stretch? )

Yup. The joys of "conversion".
Only one of my wife's guns was DROS'd directly by her (she's DROS'd 2, but didn't like the LCR and we sold it to a friend).
Technically, she owns 4... though she kinda stole one of the ARs.

When I bought the 2nd AR lower, she commented on it and I asked her if she didn't want one. "Sure".
Turns out, that was the first one I completed... the camo 14.5.
Almost 6 months later, I completed the first (Calguns state) lower into the 20" featureless. She hates it. Too heavy, and the comp is too loud.
So I picked up a Calguns Bear lower about 6 months ago... and after seeing an AR22 at OC Indoor, she said "Wow, we should get a .22 since we can shoot it here!"
So I bought a CMMG upper for the Bear lower.... yup. It's hers.

So I only own one AR, she owns two.
That's okay... I've got her beat on handguns

[Cokebottle]

Husband/wife is NOT pretty much good to go and is one which can be a serious problem. If the husband is prohibited and the wife is buying it for the husband, then it is a straw purchase.

True, but along with that using your 6th and 7th senses observing the shopping, and the handling. It's usually pretty obvious whether or not the person signing the DROS is the intended user.
Like in the case I cited... there's no way she could have even fired that Desert Eagle. She couldn't chamber a round from the mag.... it took her a good 15 minutes to do the safe handing demonstration. She clearly had no clue how to operate a firearm.

Contrast that to when my wife bought her guns. She picked the LCR because she liked the trigger pull and the frame weight. I checked out a few and offered her up the options that I felt fit what she wanted (which wasn't what she needed, but that's beside the point)... but then from the options, she spent plenty of time going back and forth before telling me "I want this one".
After selling the LCR and her learning that light weight is not always good, it was a similar thing for a semi-auto. She tried a couple of Glocks and XDs and had trouble operating the slide (I knew she would since she can't operate my XD9).
She did "okay" with the FNP9.
Thinking about the longer barrel on the 92FS, it was a logical choice to look into it.

I can't fill the mags fast enough for her. Thank God for the Uplala

[drogo]

If you suspect that the buyer is not being honest on the 4473, then by all means, you are within your rights to refuse the sale.

Does anyone have any signs posted saying that they reserve the right to refuse any sale which legality is questionable? If so, what does it say? How is it phrased?

[kemasa]

No sign, but if you ask the BATF, they say that a FFL does not have to do any transfer for any reason, although I suspect illegal discrimination would be an issue.

[drogo]

Is this in writing anywhere?

[kemasa]

Not that I know of.

[Kodemonkey]

My wife bought a gun she had been wanting for some time. My boss paid for half of it as kind of a bonus on his company card and had them hold it for me (he knew she wanted a stainless Sig and we he saw one he grabbed it and let me know). When I came in with her, she DROSd it and I paid the other 50% of the balance.

So...would that be illegal to do? Everything is on the up and up with us, and the FFL knows all of us personally.

[Disgruntled Gunny]

I have offered to buy/pay for a friend before at parallax tactical and was denied. Good on them. They did allow me to buy a gift certificate and gift it to my friend outside to complete the transaction. Keeps them clean and legal and I had no problem doing it that way. He dros'd it so I didn't care either way. His gun.

[tenpercentfirearms]

My wife bought a gun she had been wanting for some time. My boss paid for half of it as kind of a bonus on his company card and had them hold it for me (he knew she wanted a stainless Sig and we he saw one he grabbed it and let me know). When I came in with her, she DROSd it and I paid the other 50% of the balance.

So...would that be illegal to do? Everything is on the up and up with us, and the FFL knows all of us personally.

It is not illegal. However the FFL has a duty to question it. I would ask the wife, "Are you buying this firearm because your boss or husband are prohibited and they can't?" She answers no. I ask, "So this gun is actually for you and you are answering yes you are the transferee on question 11.a. and realize it is a crime if you really are buying it for them?" If she answers yes the gun is for her, then I have done my duty.

The funny thing is I had a customer come in a couple Sundays back. He was looking at a Rock Island 1911. He says he will be back. He comes back with this woman. She wants to do buy it. I am thinking that is cool, but of course my straw puchase spider senses are off the chart. So I do the HSC and she passes. Then I just had a feeling I needed to ask some more questions before I started the DROS and screwed myself out of $25.

"So how do you want to pay?"

She says, "Well however he wants to pay."

I said, "Is this gun for you or for him."

"Well it is for me."

I reply, "So why is he buying it? Is this gun really for him and you are just buying it for him because he is prohibited?"

Her answer, "Yes."

"Well then I can't sell you the gun. You just tried to conduct a straw purchase which is illegal and you just about committed a crime."

At this she clearly gets uncomfortable and I don't think she understood what the guy was getting her into.

I made her pay for the HSC since I already gave her the test and filled out the card. At least I made $10 on their little stunt.

[Cokebottle]

Is this in writing anywhere?

It doesn't need to be in writing.
It's common sense.