Thinking about an 03FFL...

[Cokebottle]

Pretty sure that they DO NOT want you to bring your collection in to their office for an audit....

With a scheduled appointment, yes. This has been discussed many times WRT allowing an agent into your home and what rights you have once he's inside and given permission to examine your C&Rs.

Not all of the field reps are aware of the laws pertaining to the 03, and some will insist that they have the right to enter your home at any time, but those regulations apply only to dealer-level FFL holders, not to the 03.

And no, you don't just walk in holding a bunch of guns.
Walk in with your bound book and announce your presence, then follow instructions on moving the guns from the vehicle to the place they will be examined.

[ke6guj]

Pretty sure that they DO NOT want you to bring your collection in to their office for an audit....

doesn't matter if they "don't want you to bring them to the office". If you schedule the inspection to be done at the office, which is your option to do so, then they either allow you to bring them to the office, or do the inspection without them.

[ke6guj]

again some of the brilliants legal minds here on calguns need to design a 03ffl handbook for california

you know that documenting every single nuance on how an 03FFL works in CA would probably be a pain in the rear? It took obeygiant and me months to build the flowcharts for handguns and shotguns. I could see an 03FFL handbook taking a long time as well.

[geeknow]

doesn't matter if they "don't want you to bring them to the office". If you schedule the inspection to be done at the office, which is your option to do so, then they either allow you to bring them to the office, or do the inspection without them.

Correct. Which is wierd. From reading my FFL literature, it seems that while they DO want to audit you, they DONT, particularly ,want you to bring in your guns...again, wierd.

[mariodesmo]

Update - July 20

OK!
I received my ATF 7CR application form in the mail yesterday so I am getting ready to send it in. I have a few questions however.

1 - I also received a FBI, DOJ finger print card that I assume needs to be filled out and sent in. No one has mentioned the finger print card, but I assume it has to be sent into the ATF.

2 - Will this also satisfy the CA COE fingerprint requirements? Or will I need an additional fingerprinting for that?

3 - I received a Certification of Compliance with 18 USC 922(g)(5)(B) form with the package. I assume that section 10 on the 7CR application (dated May 2005) will be enough. Should I send in the Certification document anyway? It's dated revised 2006.

Any other advice would be appreciated!

Thanks!

[ke6guj]

OK!
I received my ATF 7CR application form in the mail yesterday so I am getting ready to send it in. I have a few questions however.

1 - I also received a FBI, DOJ finger print card that I assume needs to be filled out and sent in. No one has mentioned the finger print card, but I assume it has to be sent into the ATF.

2 - Will this also satisfy the CA COE fingerprint requirements? Or will I need an additional fingerprinting for that?

disregard that fingerprint card, not needed for an 03FFL. Other FFL apps need the prints, so it appears that they just toss them in with an 03app on occasion by mistake.

No, it won't help you with the COE either.

3 - I received a Certification of Compliance with 18 USC 922(g)(5)(B) form with the package. I assume that section 10 on the 7CR application (dated May 2005) will be enough. Should I send in the Certification document anyway? It's dated revised 2006.

shouldn't need the CoC either. It is built into the 7CR app now, and if are a citiizen, you don't even need to fill that section out.

[stitchnicklas]

[QUOTE=ke6guj;4647945]disregard that fingerprint card, not needed for an 03FFL. Other FFL apps need the prints, so it appears that they just toss them in with an 03app on occasion by mistake.

No, it won't help you with the COE either.


???????????
edit...edit..edit
i have my 03ffl and got it 2 months ago,i was required by the atf to turn in 2 fingerprint cards.

[ke6guj]

WTF???????????

YOU DO HAVE TO TURN IN 2 FINGERPRINT CARDS TO THE ATF!!!

the application specifically says too..

I'm looking at the application right now, where does it say this?

i have my 03ffl and got it 2 months ago,i was required by the atf to turn in 2 fingerprint cards.
please do not spread fud ke6guj
it will just delay his application for being incomplete.......

did they delay your app because you didn't send in fingerprint cards, or do you assume that the print cards were required.

Many people have sent in that May 2005 revision of the 7CR form without including fingerprint cards and gotten approved.

If ATF has recently updated the form to state that prints must be included, then I might be out-of-date iwth my info, but mariodesmp refers to May 2005 in his post, so it doesn't look like the form got updated recently.

[stitchnicklas]

i was specifically told that i needed to submit fingerprints by a licensing agent when i inquired back in may
and this page also

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/how-to/become-an-ffl.html

says so........

[stitchnicklas]

Once you have decided to make an application for a federal firearms license (commonly referred to as an “FFL”) you would send the completed application to the ATF post office box listed on the application form, ATF Form 7 – Application for License (FFL). The application must be accompanied by the proper application fee, which you can pay by check, credit card or money order {we do not accept cash). Once the application fee is processed, the FFLC will enter your application information into its database and commence a full review of your application and supporting materials, including fingerprint cards and photographs. The FFLC will review the fingerprint cards you submitted for clarity and, as required by law, will then conduct an electronic background check on all the “responsible persons” you have identified on your application.

[mariodesmo]

My app is on its way!
I'm looking at my copy of the 7CR and I don't see where it says anything about a fingerprint card. I sent one in anyway. I requested two sets of forms so that is what I got, two of everything. My form is OMB No. 1140-0038, ATF Form 7CR (5310.16) revised May 2005 FYI.

The other thing I did differently than some folks mentioned is that where the form asked for "Milddle Initial", that is what I wrote. Not my whole middle name. Under "FULL NAME" in section 9, I did write out my whole name including middle.

[mariodesmo]

Could this be for an 01FFL ???

Different for an 03FFL?

I'll find out I suppose...

[ke6guj]

Once you have decided to make an application for a federal firearms license (commonly referred to as an “FFL”) you would send the completed application to the ATF post office box listed on the application form, ATF Form 7 – Application for License (FFL). The application must be accompanied by the proper application fee, which you can pay by check, credit card or money order {we do not accept cash). Once the application fee is processed, the FFLC will enter your application information into its database and commence a full review of your application and supporting materials, including fingerprint cards and photographs. The FFLC will review the fingerprint cards you submitted for clarity and, as required by law, will then conduct an electronic background check on all the “responsible persons” you have identified on your application.

this appears to be the instructions on a Form 7 which is for most/all FFL types, except for an 03FFL, which uses an Form 7CR. what you posted above does not appear on the 7CR.

here is a copy of the 7CR that you can read for yourself, http://www.calguns.net/CR/CRFFLForm7CR.pdf . You cant use this PDF form to apply, but it is nice to have to see what the form actually states.

[stitchnicklas]

i just did what the atf rep told me to do to avoid a delay.if some one does not send a fingerprint card and still gets their 03ffl then i do not have a problem with that.i was just passing on what i went through thats all....

[stitchnicklas]

no it does not appear on the form it is what the atf website says to do,and thats what i did..