Bay area gun vault issue

[SFCRangerDoc]

Let me preface this with the fact I don't normally out a business and I have read the rules for posting in here.

Went to BAGV tonight to do a PPT. Had a member of this forum driving from MORGAN HILL to Sunnyvale to do the transfer. I went in before the seller arrived to shoot the **** and when asked what I came in for I said Oh, just waiting on a seller to do a PPT. The owner Gary looked at me and said "I no longer do PPTs..."

i thought he was joking and said, that's funny...but no, he said again, "im serious, i do not do PPT's anymore".

to which I said, uh, why?

His response was as follows... "Too many shops here are taking advantage of the fact I do not charge storage fees for PPTs and I'm losing money on rifles that sit here. They are referring their customers who don't want to pay fees here and i make NOTHING on the deal... Therefore I do not do PPT's anymore because the DOJ is doing nothing about it and I'm sick of it"

And that was the end of the conversation. He would not do the PPT at all.


This is ILLEGAL from what I understand. from this post here:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=725126

CA FFLs are obligated to handle PPTs.

ARTICLE 2. Grounds for Forfeiture of License [26800. - 26915.]
( Article 2 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

26825.

A licensee shall agree to and shall act properly and promptly in processing firearms transactions pursuant to Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 28050).

and here:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=26001-27000&file=26800-26915

I would encourage any FFL holder here in this forum to put pressure on BAGV to stop acting in an illegal manner and note that I, as well as other parties involved in the process tonight will be calling the CADOJ first thing in the morning to lodge a complaint.

[SFCRangerDoc]

Also, mods, if I am completely out of line please show mercy. I was unsure of how to address this and as this is the FFL forum I was hoping that members of the FFL community could weigh in and maybe influence BAGV to stop conducting business in an illegal manner. It is one thing to deny a transfer based upon a failed background check, etc...but to flat out deny a transfer when they're required to by law is something completely different.

[scroman]

I too was turned away today for a PPT (with another member driving down from Marin). The nice man behind the counter stated his business justification, acknowledged he was in violation of the law, and said sorry. I have purchased many guns and accessories from BAGV over the years. My business priorities too have changed. Sorry BAGV.

[SFCRangerDoc]

I too was turned away today for a PPT (with another member driving down from Marin). The nice man behind the counter stated his business justification, acknowledged he was in violation of the law, and said sorry. I have purchased many guns and accessories from BAGV over the years. My business priorities too have changed. Sorry BAGV.

WOW that's just...wow

[laurelpark]

Seems to be a recurring theme with shops these days. I've black-listed a number of them because of their PPT policies. Sure, they have a business to run and they should be able to make business decisions. But, skirting the law isn't one of those things that businesses can choose to do. Up in Eureka, I'm sure lots of businesses are mad because customers can drive a few miles up to Oregon and buy things tax free - but that doesn't give them the right to stop charging sales tax just because of "a business decision." The law is the law.

One more local shop on my no-fly list. Why would I buy something from them when I can't go through them to sell it to someone else? I generally will PPT something, get the money, and buy something new at the same shop that I PPT'd at, rinse and repeat. No PPT, too much hassle and I'll go elsewhere.

[Dano3467]

^^^

For me, your FFL for new/used gun sales is your go to guy, if he's no longer willing to be your go to guy for gun related business, then time to patronize others more willing to help you.

And as far as charging a small fee for (10 day) storage he should be able to do that, just not gouge you for the service.

my $0.02

[audiophil2]

^^^

For me, your FFL for new/used gun sales is your go to guy, if he's no longer willing to be your go to guy for gun related business, then time to patronize others more willing to help you.

And as far as charging a small fee for (10 day) storage he should be able to do that, just not gouge you for the service.

my $0.02

If I charged my NFA customers a fee for storing their $300-$30,000 items for 4-12 months I would not have any NFA customers.

[six seven tango]

And as far as charging a small fee for (10 day) storage he should be able to do that, just not gouge you for the service.

my $0.02

I think he's talking about the storage fee that a lot of smaller shops have started charging on day 11. I don't think they should be allowed to charge anything for the state mandated 10 days. I do, however, have mixed feelings about any time after that. While I don't think the store should have to store your gun free of charge for 30 days because you have "better things to do", I don't think they should be charging storage for a few extra days because a customer can only show up on a Saturday due to store hours and the customers work schedule.

[SFCRangerDoc]

I think he's talking about the storage fee that a lot of smaller shops have started charging on day 11. I don't think they should be allowed to charge anything for the state mandated 10 days. I do, however, have mixed feelings about any time after that. While I don't think the store should have to store your gun free of charge for 30 days because you have "better things to do", I don't think they should be charging storage for a few extra days because a customer can only show up on a Saturday due to store hours and the customers work schedule.

Well, instead of charging fees for storage after 10 days...he's just not doing PPT's at all for anybody out of protest. He's perfectly capable of doing the PPTs

[BONECUTTER]

First and foremost did you make the request in writing as detailed in the law?

Be in writing and contain all of the terms of the transaction, and
(2) Be signed by the transferor and the transferee.

I'm no lawyers but I would guess he can deny on those grounds and he is not required to tell/teach you how to do a PPT. If he wants to be a douche that is

I would encourage any FFL holder here in this forum to put pressure on BAGV to stop acting in an illegal manner .

Why would other FFL's care? Most will be happy he is pissing off customers who will shop elsewhere.

This will get better traction under another sub forum.

[acespawnshop]

I still don't see how one can charge "storage fees" when something is in the normal DROS period. This in my opinion is not legal when doing a PPT. Now if something sits forever and is never picked up I can see that. But in the 30 days you have to pick up your gun this doesn't make sense. This seems unethical if not illegal.

[acespawnshop]

Why would other FFL's care? Most will be happy he is pissing off customers who will shop elsewhere.

I would care since if somebody is doing something wrong they should be educated before vilified on a public forum.

[BONECUTTER]

I would care since if somebody is doing something wrong they should be educated before vilified on a public forum.

The FFL is not new and admitted he knew they law tells him he is required. It's not a new dealer who just didn't know.

[acespawnshop]

Like I said then I think its definitely unethical if not illegal. I the CA law you have to do PPT's you can't just not do them. Now, as posted above there is a detailed way of how by law they are supposed to be handled. If you can't get them to do it after that then there is a problem for sure.

[SFCRangerDoc]

Like I said then I think its definitely unethical if not illegal. I the CA law you have to do PPT's you can't just not do them. Now, as posted above there is a detailed way of how by law they are supposed to be handled. If you can't get them to do it after that then there is a problem for sure.

He wouldn't give me or look at paperwork, he told me no, and the conversation was over. We had everything required by law to do the transfer. So that's that. I get that other FFL's may not want to put any pressure on him, but it definitely gives shops a bad name. I'm not vilifying him, hes done a good job of that himself.