Why did Elisha need a minstrel in order to prophesy?

[RAMCLAP]

A Mighty Fortress is our God is filled with the Theology of Christianity. Contemporary Christian and Praise music is as devoid of theology and depth as the culture at large. It is in my opinion disrespectful toward God and is in fact a violation of the 2nd Commandment. It makes Evangelical Christianity look lame and stupid to the outside culture.

[Sailormilan2]

A Mighty Fortress is our God is filled with the Theology of Christianity. Contemorary Christian and Praise music is as devoid of theology and depth as the culture at large. It is in my opinion disrespectful toward God and is in fact a violation of the 2nd Commandment. It makes Evangelical Christianity look lame and stupid to the outside culture.

Well said!

[colossians323]

Our music leader / pianist suddenly passed away just over a year ago and I had to take over her ministry (picking music / playing piano) in addition to doing mine. This was something I had to work with our keyboard player on and he eventually left the team as he wasn't putting himself aside. I've found over the decades that there is a lot of phenomenal music (sounds) available, but not a lot of phenomenal lyrics (lots of 7-11 songs!). I pick music by the lyrics first (per Ephesians 5:18-20; Colossians 3:16) and the tune second. So, guess what we sing mostly? Yep - hymns from the hymn book. After that, older conservative Christian music. Then, some of the songs of today (like some of Getty's music).

Interesting take. Is Piano and Keyboard what makes the sound phenomenal?

I think every generation plays music that speaks to their era, and the lyrics are typically straight out of the bible, not of all modern worship songs, but most that enter the church building.

I am pretty sure the early hymns musical style was not set apart from the world but sounded like the "worlds music", but introduce the lyrics and you have "Godly music" Music is just music without the lyrics.

I am pretty sure when David was playing and banging cymbals that similar music happens today.

Take these popular lyrics from a modern day song, do these sound like there of the world?

The Lion and the Lamb

Artist: Big Daddy Weave

He's coming on the clouds, kings and kingdoms will bow down
And every chain will break, as broken hearts declare His praise
Who can stop the Lord Almighty?

Our God is the Lion, the Lion of Judah
He's roaring with power and fighting our battles
And every knee will bow before You
Our God is the Lamb, the Lamb that was slain
For the sin of the world, His blood breaks the chains
And every knee will bow before the Lion and the Lamb
Oh every knee will bow before the Lion and the Lamb

So open up the gates, make way before the King of kings
Our God who calls the saved is here to set the captives free
Who can stop the Lord Almighty?

Our God is the Lion, the Lion of Judah
He's roaring with power and fighting our battles
And every knee will bow before You
Our God is the Lamb, the Lamb that was slain
For the sin of the world, His blood breaks the chains
And every knee will bow before the Lion and the Lamb
Oh every knee will bow before the Lion and the Lamb

Who can stop the Lord Almighty?
Who can stop the Lord Almighty?
Who can stop the Lord Almighty?
Who can stop the Lord Almighty?

Oh who can stop the Lord Almighty?
Who can stop the Lord Almighty?
Oh who can stop the Lord Almighty?
Who can stop the Lord?

Our God is the Lion, the Lion of Judah
He's roaring with power and fighting our battles
And every knee will bow before You
Our God is the Lamb, the Lamb that was slain
For the sin of the world, His blood breaks the chains
And every knee will bow before the Lion and the Lamb
Oh every knee will bow before the Lion and the Lamb
And every knee will bow before the Lion and the Lamb
Every knee will bow before the Lion and the Lamb

Does the world know who the Lion of Judah is?
Does the world know who the slain lamb is?
Does the world accept that every knee will bow down?
Who is able to stop he LORD almighty?

[colossians323]

A Mighty Fortress is our God is filled with the Theology of Christianity. Contemporary Christian and Praise music is as devoid of theology and depth as the culture at large. It is in my opinion disrespectful toward God and is in fact a violation of the 2nd Commandment. It makes Evangelical Christianity look lame and stupid to the outside culture.

Maybe you can give an example? Scripture filled music is deep and thoughtful, what type of Contemporary Christian music are you talking about?
Please be specific, I am at a loss as to what you are talking about.

As far as Christianity looking lame and stoopid to outside culture, that has always been the case, its not like anything new is happening. The sick will come to the healer, those who view themselves as well will call anything Christianity as lame and stoopid.

[billvau]

Interesting take. Is Piano and Keyboard what makes the sound phenomenal?

I think every generation plays music that speaks to their era, and the lyrics are typically straight out of the bible, not of all modern worship songs, but most that enter the church building.

I am pretty sure the early hymns musical style was not set apart from the world but sounded like the "worlds music", but introduce the lyrics and you have "Godly music" Music is just music without the lyrics.

I am pretty sure when David was playing and banging cymbals that similar music happens today.

Take these popular lyrics from a modern day song, do these sound like there of the world?



Does the world know who the Lion of Judah is?
Does the world know who the slain lamb is?
Does the world accept that every knee will bow down?
Who is able to stop he LORD almighty?

The piano and keyboard were just part of my story of how I had to assume music responsibility. Nope, not a requirement.

As I wrote, there's a lot of phenomenal music today (the tune), but the first priority is God-honoring words = theologically sound words. That doesn't rule out all of today's music. I used Getty as an example.

I think that the ultimate test is when a mature Christian evaluates the worship they see God please the most, man blessed as a by-product, and no one exalting themselves or the music itself. If hearts and minds, filled with the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 5:18) prepare and perform and praise with the music, Christ will be pleased.

And, not all churches / services have to be the same. I wouldn't expect a service to youth to have exactly the same music as a service to elderly. Nor services in Africa, Asia, Europe, South America, and even different regions of the US to sound the same! We have different styles of music and use different instruments (a pipe organ in a small village in Africa? Nope.).

But, on the other hand, if I walk into a service with a rock band, light show, musicians attracting attention from their dress and performance, I'm going to suspect that they lyrics won't pass the test of theology and will watch to see if the worship will please the Lord or not. As a pastor, I have to make that decision every Sunday at our Church. I then also watch the rest of the service to see if the sermon is a solid, exegetical, expository, biblical sermon that edifies (vs. a rah-rah, emotional, self-help, conversation, etc.). After seeing the music, I'm going to suspect not, but I'll give it a chance. IOW, only by seeing and testing the whole service against Scripture can one determine if Christ is being honored in His church.

[Kokopelli]

colossians323 has it right

Is CCM of God or of the devil?

Bands, lights, new songs, worshiping lyrics, modern composers, keyboards, electric guitars.

Is it of God or of the devil?

It's one or the other.

Mark 9:38-40 New International Version (NIV)

“Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”

“Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us.

Who are those that judge how Holy Spirit is moving in the lives of others? That is the sin of the Pharisees, who taught the traditions of men and not The Spirit God.

Matthew 15:2-6 "Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders?

Colossians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.

Mark 7:6-7 (NIV)

He replied, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written,

“‘This people honors me with their lips,
but their heart is far from me;
in vain do they worship me,
teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’

If pianos, organs, hymns and choir robes work for your congregation, GREAT! Go with God. Be blessed. But don't judge those that are doing it differently as The Spirit guides them.

Romans 14:4 Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the LORD is able to make them stand.

[Alan Block]

Does the world know who the Lion of Judah is?
Thw most recent incarnation is Haile Sellasse.

[RAMCLAP]

Does the world know who the Lion of Judah is?
Thw most recent incarnation is Haile Sellasse.

The only incarnation of the Lion of Judah is Jesus of Nazareth.

[HK9]

Does the world know who the Lion of Judah is?
Thw most recent incarnation is Haile Sellasse.

All roads lead back to Rome. In this case, the eastern Roman empire. Selassie, was ordained under orthodox driven Catholicism and attached to the hip through what saint Furmentius, had established on behalf of the same evil church that has extended its reach throughout the entire world for the sole purpose of corrupting it. Not a Lion, but a Snake.

Bring back Maat and the world will finally know true peace and no need for laws as the truth about themselves and the universe in which they live will be all they seek.

[colossians323]

But, on the other hand, if I walk into a service with a rock band, light show, musicians attracting attention from their dress and performance, I'm going to suspect that they lyrics won't pass the test of theology and will watch to see if the worship will please the Lord or not. As a pastor, I have to make that decision every Sunday at our Church. I then also watch the rest of the service to see if the sermon is a solid, exegetical, expository, biblical sermon that edifies (vs. a rah-rah, emotional, self-help, conversation, etc.). After seeing the music, I'm going to suspect not, but I'll give it a chance. IOW, only by seeing and testing the whole service against Scripture can one determine if Christ is being honored in His church.

I am assuming from your comments here, that your Church doesn't use sound equipment at all...............as not to distract from the message. Those that would have to run sound would be too distracted from God.
I would also assume that you would not have a worship band, again from your comments above it would be too distracting for the congregants to worship.
Weird that 'rock band' seems to be a distraction, when what I think you meant was 'worship band' playing music you don't agree with. I have never been to a church and seen a 'rock band' playing but only having visited less than a hundred churches, that might be the issue

[RandyD]

Thanks for the insights on music. The post with 2 Kings 3:15 opened my eyes. As I understand it, music is to calm us, relieve us of distractions, which allows us to receive the Holy Spirit.

I attended a church in San Diego, but I could not get into the worship music. In my prior years, I had worked as a bartender where live music was played, and I got to watch and speak to a number of musicians. I was never impressed with their devotion to music. It seemed that music controlled their emotions, actions and entire way of life. Many of them lead corrupt lives of drugs and sex and music was a common denominator.

In church, I noticed the musicians acting similarly. They conducted themselves as if music controlled them. I noticed that many of the musicians dressed and presented themselves so that they could not be overlooked. I also remember one girl who was a singer for a band, she was single and she became pregnant. I was also privy to another group of musicians who were involved in adultery and this charade continues to this day, and the lady involved in the adultery had the ear of the pastoral staff, and she maligned her husband terribly. I know this because I represented her husband in their divorce action and over the past 10 years he has become a good friend. His ex wife is very attractive, a good singer and she is still trying to destroy her ex husband’s reputation. I say all of this because music has never appealed to me.

[billvau]

I am assuming from your comments here, that you Church doesn't use sound equipment at all...............as not to distract from the message. Those that would have to run sound would be too distracted from God.
I would also assume that you would not have a worship band, again from your comments above it would be too distracting for the congregants to worship.
Weird that 'rock band' seems to be a distraction, when what I think you meant was 'worship band' playing music you don't agree with. I have never been to a church and seen a 'rock band' playing but only having visited less than a hundred churches, that might be the issue

Of course we use instruments. I'm the pianist (our pianist passed away last year and this got added to my responsibilities!). No "worship band" as most use the term. That's not a biblical term, so there are many possible meanings.

I think I was clear in my post. It's not "music you don't agree with." It's having to discern if the worship is of the world or pleasing to the Lord. As I wrote, there are many parts to a service of worship and you have to look at them all.

[Kokopelli]

Of course we use instruments. I'm the pianist (our pianist passed away last year and this got added to my responsibilities!). No "worship band" as most use the term. That's not a biblical term, so there are many possible meanings.

I think I was clear in my post. It's not "music you don't agree with." It's having to discern if the worship is of the world or pleasing to the Lord. As I wrote, there are many parts to a service of worship and you have to look at them all.

[billvau]

Again, depends on how you define "worship band" and who the individuals are. I've seen some where the worship team was unsaved, and so they were certainly under Satan's control per Ephesians 2:2. I've seen some where the worship team's performance was in the flesh and not of the Spirit. And, I've seen some where the worship team was filled with the Spirit (Eph. 5:18) and the music then was a result (Eph. 5:19-20). I won't generalize to "all" worship groups because I can't.

[colossians323]

Of course we use instruments. I'm the pianist (our pianist passed away last year and this got added to my responsibilities!). No "worship band" as most use the term. That's not a biblical term, so there are many possible meanings.

weird, pianist is not a biblical term, so there are many possible meanings. What does that actually mean since the piano wasn't even an instrument in biblical times?

I think I was clear in my post. It's not "music you don't agree with." It's having to discern if the worship is of the world or pleasing to the Lord. As I wrote, there are many parts to a service of worship and you have to look at them all.

If it was as clear as you thought, there would not be as many questions into what you think worship music, or "worship pianist" means. I actually thought this thread was specifically music, not all the specific aspects of worship, which are more than just music.

What did you think this thread was about?

Since you also avoided the question about sound equipment, does your church use sound equipment, even though it is a distraction. or do you contradict what you say about distractions?