Why did Elisha need a minstrel in order to prophesy?

[Kokopelli]

Is there a spiritual connection between musical instruments, music, a prophet and God speaking or acting upon something? Does this occur with worship music today? Here is the scripture that leads me to ask....

2 Kings 3:13-16a

Thanks!

[Garand Hunter]

Most definately a connection between worship music today that usually includes singing. In so called Full Gospel/Evangelical churches/fellowships this is very frequent .

Remember when David played his harp in King Saul's presence the " evil spirit from God " harassing Saul would leave for awhile ? Music can make powerful connections/differences in various situations.

Yes I am of the Full Gospel Evangelical direction. See this from time to time in different meetings.

Psalm 1

[CVShooter]

Music promotes ecstatic experiences & stirs the emotions.

[RAMCLAP]

Most definately a connection between worship music today that usually includes singing. In so called Full Gospel/Evangelical churches/fellowships this is very frequent .

Remember when David played his harp in King Saul's presence the " evil spirit from God " harassing Saul would leave for awhile ? Music can make powerful connections/differences in various situations.

Yes I am of the Full Gospel Evangelical direction. See this from time to time in different meetings.

Psalm 1

This is probably not far off. He was clearly angry at Jehoram. He needed to calm down. His Mentor Elijah often had minstrels when he was upset.

[Charlie_Bravo]

[Jn316]

(No. 1612)
Delivered on Lord's-Day Morning, August 7th, 1881, by
C. H. SPURGEON,
At the Metropolitan Tabernacle, Newington
The text is a somewhat singular one, but I hope it will suggest a profitable idea.

"But now bring me a minstrel. And it came to pass, when the minstrel played, that the hand of the Lord came upon him."- 2Ki 3:15

ELISHA needed that the Holy Spirit should come upon him to inspire him with prophetic utterances. "Holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." We need that the hand of the Lord should be laid upon us, for we can never open our mouths in wisdom except we are under the divine touch. Now, the Spirit of God works according to his own will. "The wind bloweth where it listeth," and the Spirit of God operates as he chooseth. Elisha could not prophesy just when he liked; he must wait until the Spirit of God came upon him, and the Spirit of God could come or not even as he pleased. Elisha had noticed that the Spirit of God acted upon him most freely when his mind was restful and subdued. He found himself best prepared for the heavenly voice when the noise within his soul was hushed, and every disturbing emotion was quieted. Having ascertained this fact by observation he acted upon it. He could not create the wind of the Spirit, but he could set his sail to receive it, and he did so.

At the particular time alluded to in the text Elisha had been greatly irritated by the sight of Jehoram, the king of Israel, the son of Ahab and Jezebel. In the true spirit of his old master, Elijah, the prophet let Jehoram know what he thought of him; and having delivered his soul, he very naturally felt agitated and distressed, and unfit to be the mouthpiece for the Spirit of God. He knew that the hand of the Lord would not rest upon him while he was in that state, and therefore he said, "Bring me a minstrel." The original Hebrew conveys the idea of a man accustomed to play upon the harp. Listening to the dulcet tones which were produced by a skilful harper, who very likely sang one of David's psalms to the music, the prophet waited awhile, and then the hand of the Lord came upon him. Under the influence of minstrelsy his mind grew quiet, his agitation subsided, his thoughts were collected, and the Spirit of God spake through him. It was a most commendable thing for him to use the means which he had found at other times helpful, though still his sole reliance was upon the hand of the Lord. It would seem from a passage in the First Book of Samuel that Elisha was not the only prophet who had found music helpful, for we read, "Thou shalt meet a company of prophets coming down from the high place with a psaltery, and a tabret, and a pipe, and a harp, before them; and they shall prophesy." Elisha, like his predecessors, only used a natural means for putting himself into readiness for receiving supernatural help.
Charles Spurgeon

[billvau]

Is there a spiritual connection between musical instruments, music, a prophet and God speaking or acting upon something? Does this occur with worship music today? Here is the scripture that leads me to ask....



Thanks!

"Connection" - yes. Causation - no. Necessary - no. In this context, the music was just to calm him first.

The problem with worship music today is (1) musicians are often performing more in the flesh than while filled with the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 5:18-20), (2) so the music sounds just like the world's music when it should offend the world just as much as Christ does, as the Bible does (Ephesians 5:18-20; Colossians 3:16), and (3) the worshippers (and you can include the musicians) see the worship music as something that primarily feeds them / excites them / serves them / etc. when it's primary purpose is the praise God. *IF* we put praising God with the right heart attitude FIRST, then we are fed as a byproduct. IOW, everything we do is to the glory of God first and foremost, even if it doesn't excite us, serve us, etc.

The comment I make most at the beginning of our worship services is to ask everyone to take a moment to put off / put aside everything else in their lives that they were carrying around with them and JUST focus this time of worship on glorifying God the Father through Jesus Christ. And, I pray that every part of our service - music, Scripture reading, Sermon, etc. is ALL glorifying to God in its entirety - and that none of it is held back by us for our benefit. We need to give it ALL to Him. What happens then is that the Lord gives us back blessing in return. Not emotional rah-rah feelings, but lives focused entirely on Him knowing the fullness of joy and peace and love in Christ.

Our music leader / pianist suddenly passed away just over a year ago and I had to take over her ministry (picking music / playing piano) in addition to doing mine. This was something I had to work with our keyboard player on and he eventually left the team as he wasn't putting himself aside. I've found over the decades that there is a lot of phenomenal music (sounds) available, but not a lot of phenomenal lyrics (lots of 7-11 songs!). I pick music by the lyrics first (per Ephesians 5:18-20; Colossians 3:16) and the tune second. So, guess what we sing mostly? Yep - hymns from the hymn book. After that, older conservative Christian music. Then, some of the songs of today (like some of Getty's music).

[Alan Block]

Once there was a secret chord that David played and it pleased the Lord .......

[RAMCLAP]

"Connection" - yes. Causation - no. Necessary - no. In this context, the music was just to calm him first.

The problem with worship music today is (1) musicians are often performing more in the flesh than while filled with the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 5:18-20), (2) so the music sounds just like the world's music when it should offend the world just as much as Christ does, as the Bible does (Ephesians 5:18-20; Colossians 3:16), and (3) the worshippers (and you can include the musicians) see the worship music as something that primarily feeds them / excites them / serves them / etc. when it's primary purpose is the praise God. *IF* we put praising God with the right heart attitude FIRST, then we are fed as a byproduct. IOW, everything we do is to the glory of God first and foremost, even if it doesn't excite us, serve us, etc.

The comment I make most at the beginning of our worship services is to ask everyone to take a moment to put off / put aside everything else in their lives that they were carrying around with them and JUST focus this time of worship on glorifying God the Father through Jesus Christ. And, I pray that every part of our service - music, Scripture reading, Sermon, etc. is ALL glorifying to God in its entirety - and that none of it is held back by us for our benefit. We need to give it ALL to Him. What happens then is that the Lord gives us back blessing in return. Not emotional rah-rah feelings, but lives focused entirely on Him knowing the fullness of joy and peace and love in Christ.

Our music leader / pianist suddenly passed away just over a year ago and I had to take over her ministry (picking music / playing piano) in addition to doing mine. This was something I had to work with our keyboard player on and he eventually left the team as he wasn't putting himself aside. I've found over the decades that there is a lot of phenomenal music (sounds) available, but not a lot of phenomenal lyrics (lots of 7-11 songs!). I pick music by the lyrics first (per Ephesians 5:18-20; Colossians 3:16) and the tune second. So, guess what we sing mostly? Yep - hymns from the hymn book. After that, older conservative Christian music. Then, some of the songs of today (like some of Getty's music).

This is precisely what I think of praise music. Applauding after the song is just as cringe worthy. Are they singing to God or entertaining the congregation? that said, let's not make this about that. The question was Elisha.

[RAMCLAP]

Psalm 47:1-9 Clap your hands, all you nations; shout to God with cries of joy. For the LORD Most High is awesome, the great King over all the earth.

On the way to the temple. Not in the Temple.

[billvau]

This is precisely what I think of praise music. Applauding after the song is just as cringe worthy. Are they singing to God or entertaining the congregation? that said, let's not make this about that. The question was Elisha.

Agreed - applauding in church - ugh. He asked above about worship music today, so that's what I was responding to.

[RAMCLAP]

Agreed - applauding in church - ugh. He asked above about worship music today, so that's what I was responding to.

And you responded well.

[Creampuff]

"I pick music by the lyrics first (per Ephesians 5:18-20; Colossians 3:16) and the tune second. So, guess what we sing mostly? Yep - hymns from the hymn book. After that, older conservative Christian music. Then, some of the songs of today (like some of Getty's music).

Agreed, there is richness in doctrine that can be found in some of the old hymns. Let's say from "And Can it Be?":
The salvation message is capture beautifully in this hymn.

Or the weight upon Horatio Spafford when he penned "It is well"

[billvau]

Agreed, there is richness in doctrine that can be found in some of the old hymns. Let's say from "And Can it Be?":


The salvation message is capture beautifully in this hymn.

Or the weight upon Horatio Spafford when he penned "It is well"

Just did "And Can it Be" in the past two weeks! LOVE that hymn!

God bless,

[billvau]

Agreed, there is richness in doctrine that can be found in some of the old hymns. Let's say from "And Can it Be?":


The salvation message is capture beautifully in this hymn.

Or the weight upon Horatio Spafford when he penned "It is well"

And, my daughter-in-law is singing "It is well" during our time of giving this coming Sunday! Another favorite. Be sure you know the story behind the writing of that song - amazing.