The Logos

[RAMCLAP]

During Alexander’s conquests he had 20 cities named after himself. Each of these Alexandria’s would have a “Library” or university/academy for higher learning. To affect this he had his top scholars begin to develop a “Common Greek“(Koine or Hellenist) to be used throughout the entire empire. Jesus and the Apostles would have been fluent in this language giving them the ability to carry on conversations with Roman soldiers and Pilate himself. The Jews who lived throughout the empire called for the precise translation of Hebrew into Greek resulting in the Septuagint Translation. This would result in a seamless flow of language from the OT into the NT when it was written.
From these centers of higher thinking begins the concept of the Logos. It was a quest to define the attributes of the Creator. The word “logos” does, in fact mean word, and if used in that context it would mean “word”. But that is not the context being used to describe the Creator at the time. The Greeks thought of the Logos in terms of a power. It was literally thought of as a “Force”. This is in fact where George Lucas gets his idea for the Force. You remember when Luke and Obi Wan are on the Falcon and Obi Wan keeps telling Luke about the Force? Obi Wan tells him to the effect that the Force is, “that which creates all things and binds all things together”. However, the Greeks never got around to concluding that the Logos was a being. Only that it was a mysterious power.

[RAMCLAP]

Enter John. John takes it the final step and tells the entire Greek world (Rome included) that the Logos is not some mysterious power, but that the Logos is a being who he personally knew and hung out with.
John 1New International Version (NIV)
The Word Became Flesh
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.
In the beginning (Arche) would be understood as “eternity”. Since Arche is “the ultimate”, it would represent “from Eternity”. Translated it would be, “From all of eternity was the creator being, and that creator being was with God, and the creator being was God. Through Him all things were made and; without Him nothing was made.
John concludes his explanation of the Logos by stating that this creator being became a man and lived among them, and that he (John) being one of the three on the Mount of Transfiguration who saw the Logos as he really looks.
14 The Word (Logos) became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
To conclude, it is well to view the word “Logos” as “Word” in John 1 as “The Word of God”. It does mean that as well. I merely wanted to convey the view that first century Greeks would have understood it and why orthodox Christians subscribe to the Trinitarian view of the Christian Godhead, and the deity of Christ. I also want to make it clear that this is merely a scratching of the surface on this subject. For those who want to play “gotcha” I’ll stipulate your minutiae. For the rest, I look forward to your incites.

John.

[TomMcC]

Very good. I would only add that "Logos" would carry with it the idea of logic, and from what I understand, this idea would give us a pretty good idea of how God actually thinks. Some seem to think that God's logic is somehow different than our logic, yet our minds are made after the image of His mind. Of course God is omniscient, but He is really and truly able to communicate His truth to us.....without contradictions.

The ideas you layed down would definitely lay waste to the ancient heresy of Arianism. Showing Christ's eternalness and personhood.

[RAMCLAP]

Very good. I would only add that "Logos" would carry with it the idea of logic, and from what I understand, this idea would give us a pretty good idea of how God actually thinks. Some seem to think that God's logic is somehow different than our logic, yet our minds are made after the image of His mind. Of course God is omniscient, but He is really and truly able to communicate His truth to us.....without contradictions.

The ideas you layed down would definitely lay waste to the ancient heresy of Arianism. Showing Christ's eternalness and personhood.

Forgot about that. Good point. Thanks.

[Dezrat]

Very good. I would only add that "Logos" would carry with it the idea of logic, and from what I understand, this idea would give us a pretty good idea of how God actually thinks. Some seem to think that God's logic is somehow different than our logic, yet our minds are made after the image of His mind. Of course God is omniscient, but He is really and truly able to communicate His truth to us.....without contradictions.

The ideas you layed down would definitely lay waste to the ancient heresy of Arianism. Showing Christ's eternalness and personhood.

The "logic" aspect does greatly illuminate the meaning. Years ago I was talking with a Greek Professor that was relating to me that he also felt "precepts" was a very valid expression of the idea behind "Logos". I liked that too. Good stuff Ramclap!

[Dezrat]

The Word (Logos) became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father,

I've often pictured John at this point pondering for hours just how he could best describe, contain into words, the glory he saw in Jesus Christ. All the things he saw. Wondrous miracles too numerous to count no doubt. The mount of Transfiguration. Yet he chooses, by the Spirit, to best describe his Glory:
Full of Grace and Truth

[eb47]

The Logos (blueprint /plan) was God from the beginning. YHWH revealed himself as Jesus. Old Testament Jehovah is Jesus of the New Testament.

[Dezrat]

The Logos (blueprint /plan) was God from the beginning. YHWH revealed himself as Jesus. Old Testament Jehovah is Jesus of the New Testament.

the glory of the one and only Son(Jesus), who came from the Father(Jehovah)

Man I hate to use this, but it depends what your definition of is is.

[RAMCLAP]

The Logos (blueprint /plan) was God from the beginning. YHWH revealed himself as Jesus. Old Testament Jehovah is Jesus of the New Testament.

Precisely.

[CaliforniaLiberal]

Beg your pardon, but I find the last 9 posts a little hard to follow.

If you would be so kind, could you sort of sum it all up in 20 words or less?

[RAMCLAP]

Jesus of Nazareth is the God of the Old Testament and the New Testament is the "conveyance".

Not convenience. Dang auto correct.

[Dezrat]

Jesus of Nazareth is the God of the Old Testament and the New Testament is the convenience.

I wish new believers that query me about this would accept an explanation as convenient as that. Sure would make things a lot easier! The same yet distinct is not something the mind easily wraps around.

[CaliforniaLiberal]

Jesus of Nazareth is the God of the Old Testament and the New Testament is the convenience.

I'm still confused. What is Convenience? The New Testament is easy to use?

It's my fault, trying to limit to 20 words.

Are you saying that Yahweh is Jesus? In all my dabbling in Christianity I don't think I've ever heard that before.

What are you trying to say about Logos?

[RAMCLAP]

Yes. Jesus is Yaweh. The one at the burning bush that told Moses, "I am that I am". He is the God of Abraham,, Issac, and Jacob. That is and has been the official doctrine of orthodox Christianity from the beginning. Codified at the Council of Nicea, and summed up in the Apostles, and Nicean Creeds.

[CaliforniaLiberal]

Yes. Jesus is Yaweh. The one at the burning bush that told Moses, "I am that I am". He is the God of Abraham,, Issac, and Jacob. That is and has been the official doctrine of orthodox Christianity from the beginning. Codified at the Council of Nicea, and summed up in the Apostles, and Nicean Creeds.

I don't think that the Nicean Creed says that Jesus is Yahweh.

https://www.ccel.org/creeds/nicene.creed.html

I totally get that Yahweh is "The one at the burning bush that told Moses, "I am that I am". He is the God of Abraham,, Issac, and Jacob." I've just never heard that Jesus is Yahweh.

What Faith do you follow? What do you call your flavor of Christianity?

And we've been totally sidetracked from understanding what you are saying about Logos.