interesting topic concerning Calvinism. School me...

[Just Dave]

I know two things that we are predestined and we have free will both. Both are in the bible.

Yes they are and both are intertwined together working hand in hand.

[RAMCLAP]

And your proof is???? And that has been my point. You've offered nothing but opinion. No scripture to back up your claims. It's a thread jack. Carry on.

[Just Dave]

And your proof is???? And that has been my point. You've offered nothing but opinion. No scripture to back up your claims. It's a thread jack. Carry on.

Christ died for all...did you not see that post?

[RAMCLAP]

Since you seem to be illiterate, I'll reinterprete for you. The OP was, "what is Calvinism?". Not "who does Just Dave think is a heretic?" I gave you the scriptures. You should try reading them sometime before you exegete ex-cathedra.

[Just Dave]

Since you seem to be illiterate, I'll reinterprete for you. The OP was, "what is Calvinism?". Not "who does Just Dave think is a heretic?" I gave you the scriptures. You should try reading them sometime before you exegete ex-cathedra.

Why do you have to defend Calvinism?
I sense that you're angry with my posts on this thread...Why?

Just because I'm completely convinced that Calvinism in bad theology (both biblically and through experience) doesn't mean I'm knocking people who are deceived by it.

Like I have posted before I could write pages and pages of what I've seen and dealt with when it comes to Calvinist, I don't think you want to go there.

[RAMCLAP]

Oh, I want to go there. The issue is, "what is Calvinism" Not what does Just Dave think is heresy. Again, read the OP and stick to the subject. You will not roll me with your ad hominem attacks. Your posts have no placer here. If you want to start a thread on pros and cons of Calvinism then fine. But this is a thread on, " what is Calvinism"?. Not your opinion of who is a heretic. Wake up.

[Just Dave]

OP asked to be schooled, so he's getting schooled. He didn't ask what Calvinism is.

I think when OP logs back on and reads this thread he will have gotten a satisfactory answer.

[eb47]

Yes. Though God does the work of salvation, he does not believe for you. You must do that. And you do that by the power of the Holy Spirit. Remember that the Glory belongs to Jesus. Not us.

How do you believe for yourself if believing is through the power of the Holy Spirit? So, is it you or the Holy Spirit that believes? I'm confused.

[Not a Cook]

kustomkat1950 - some of us already discussed part of your question in another recent thread (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...=calvin&page=2) - you may find it an interesting read.

I'm probably in the "oddball camp" here. I avoid all man made systematic theologies and stick solely with what the Scriptures actually teach. I don't disrespect those who adhere to one or teach one, nor do I care to argue over such matters. As RAMCLAP noted, there is much that can be gleaned from the writings of saints who have preceded us. However, much harmful disagreement between brethren has also occurred because we tend to get caught up in very specific details (often assumed details at that) and even speculation, and forget to actively love one another as Christ taught us to do and focus on searching the Scriptures ala the Bereans rather than searching our own understandings or the interpretations of other men.

That said, there are "mysteries" that are simply beyond our understanding. Just how does God's having called, predestined, foreknown, justified, and glorified His saints (ref. Romans 8:28-30) mesh with the passages that teach that we must also choose Him? I don't know! But since the Scriptures teach both that He called predestined, foreknew, justified, and glorified me AND that I chose to love Him after He loved me (ref. 1 John 4:19), I believe there is no contradiction therein.

I know two things that we are predestined and we have free will both. Both are in the bible.

^ I agree (although "free will" is a loaded term and means different things to different folks).

You don't have all of the above right, but you have presented the dilemma that exists with the doctrine of double predestination. And while we do have scripture passages speaking of the elect as those who are saved, we don't have the opposite, do we? Are there any passages that describe the un-elect?

Your question intrigued me, so I did a quick search and noted the following verses:

The Lord has made all for Himself,
Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom. Proverbs 16:4 (NKJV)

For the wicked are reserved for the day of doom;
They shall be brought out on the day of wrath. Job 21:30 (NKJV)

Then he said to him, “Thus says the Lord: ‘Because you have let slip out of your hand a man whom I appointed to utter destruction, therefore your life shall go for his life, and your people for his people.’” 1 Kings 20:42 (NKJV)

But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. 1 Thessalonians 5:8-10 (NKJV) PERHAPS (yes... merely surmising... this is definitely not clear-cut) this implies that some are appointed to wrath, but then again, perhaps not. Either way, not clear enough to take a position on the topic at hand.

You turn man to destruction,
And say, “Return, O children of men.” Psalm 90:3 (NKJV)

They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed. 1 Peter 2:8b (NKJV)

Are You not from everlasting,
O Lord my God, my Holy One?
We shall not die.
O Lord, You have appointed them for judgment;
O Rock, You have marked them for correction. Habakkuk 1:12 (NKJV)

[spamsucker]

Looks to me like the wars of religion stemmed out of the reformation and while the bloodshed has stopped, the war has not. This is why Catholicism is the only non-heretical western form of Christianity. At least it's got its dogma sorted out into a mostly non-self-crontadictory line.

[WASR10]

Looks to me like the wars of religion stemmed out of the reformation and while the bloodshed has stopped, the war has not. This is why Catholicism is the only non-heretical western form of Christianity. At least it's got its dogma sorted out into a mostly non-self-crontadictory line.

I think probably any Christian with any kind of faith will argue the same for their particular denomination or division. I know I would.

Sent from my tappy device thingy

[hasserl]

How do you believe for yourself if believing is through the power of the Holy Spirit? So, is it you or the Holy Spirit that believes? I'm confused.

You addressed your question to RAMCLAP, but if I may offer an answer that I believe he would agree with; it's simple, you DON'T "believe for yourself". You have no ability to "believe for yourself".

As Martin Luther said: "I believe that by my own reason or strength I cannot believe in Jesus Christ, my Lord, or come to him, but the Holy Spirit has called me through the Gospel, enlightened me with his gifts, and sanctified and preserved me in the true faith."

If you could believe for yourself, there would be no need for the Holy Spirit. It's similar to the theology that if you could save yourself there would be no need for Christ's atoning sacrifice.

The Holy Spirit calls you (us) through the Word, you (we) stop rejecting and receive him. He creates faith in us, we receive it. The Spirit does all the work in us, we are 100% passive.

[hasserl]

Looks to me like the wars of religion stemmed out of the reformation and while the bloodshed has stopped, the war has not. This is why Catholicism is the only non-heretical western form of Christianity. At least it's got its dogma sorted out into a mostly non-self-crontadictory line.

Looks to me like the Roman Catholic's are continuing their centuries old attack on and corruption of the Christian faith, and are ignoring their own culpability in causing the strife and division that exists in the church today.