Just A Question?

[IrishJoe3]

I think the fact is that the Feds issue a lot of gear and sometime it goes to some departments who may not have the training to use it. .

I did want to highlight your qualifier. You make the statement that they "may" not have the training to use it (indicating a lack of specific knowledge either way), but the assumption is "because I don't know then they DON'T have it".

Not calling you out, but a lot of people do that here.

[pacrat]

I'm not a cop, never been a cop, never played a cop on a TV soap opera, I'm to damned old to be a cop now.

My best friend is a cop, he is a stellar young man of 36 who has a wife and 2 lovely daughters.

I want him and his brother officers to have the best damn equipment that tax dollars can provide them with. Just like I want our military personnel to have the same.

I don't give a crap if those tax dollars were originally spent through the DoD or the County Budget.

JM2c

[Helmut Shmacher Space Chimp]

I did want to highlight your qualifier. You make the statement that they "may" not have the training to use it (indicating a lack of specific knowledge either way), but the assumption is "because I don't know then they DON'T have it".

Not calling you out, but a lot of people do that here.

Well called point Joe. I know that there are a lot of vets on DPs but there are some officers who are not familiar with military equipment or the working of such

[TRICKSTER]

Well called point Joe. I know that there are a lot of vets on DPs but there are some officers who are not familiar with military equipment or the working of such

I think that this may be a good time to repeat IrishJoe3's question which I'm sure your not answering was a simple oversight.

What gear is being issued without adequate training? What gear do you see as being even a POTENTIAL problem in this regard?

[Helmut Shmacher Space Chimp]

Maybe with the patrol rifles. Or I guess my misunderstanding how the respective DPs train their patrol officers to use them. I really have no idea how other law enforcement bodies train to use them. Now sounding like a total fool here could a LEO please give me an idea of how LAPD trains their line officers to use the department patrol rifle?

[TRICKSTER]

Maybe with the patrol rifles. Or I guess my misunderstanding how the respective DPs train their patrol officers to use them. I really have no idea how other law enforcement bodies train to use them. Now sounding like a total fool here could a LEO please give me an idea of how LAPD trains their line officers to use the department patrol rifle?

I didn't realize that a AR type rifle was specialized military equipment that required special military training. No wonder the Anti gunners wants to ban them.

[Helmut Shmacher Space Chimp]

Legit Question Trick....I'm in favor of police having M4s but I'm against the libs here in Calif with the double standard.. It has TO GO...

[IlDuche]

We get issued semi auto rifles just like Joe blow buys and builds. Same thing. And yes there is a POST "Patrol Rifle Course." Several day class when I went through. A " Law Enforcement" AR appears to mean no bullet button and about 3x the cost.

[IrishJoe3]

Maybe with the patrol rifles. Or I guess my misunderstanding how the respective DPs train their patrol officers to use them. I really have no idea how other law enforcement bodies train to use them. Now sounding like a total fool here could a LEO please give me an idea of how LAPD trains their line officers to use the department patrol rifle?

So...ALL the drama over police using military gear boils down to cops are using a civilian knockoff of a military rifle that is incidentally the same rifle sold in WalMarts nationwide (Kalifornia excluded).

Is that about what we're looking at?

I can only speak from my Civilian LEO experience, but officers are only authorized to deploy a patrol rifle if they have completed a training course and qualified on it. As already mentioned, there is a POST Patrol Rifle course.

This whole "military-equipment-the-sky-is-falling" is bunk. It reeks of the EXACT SAME sensationalism that the liberal fruitcakes use to sell their assault weapon agenda. It is no different.

There is a california state agency that has and routinely uses actual combat aircraft in our very own communities. This agency uses the Air Force OV-10 Bronco Light Attack aircraft, the Navy's Grumman S-2T Submarine Tracker/killer, and the US Army's UH-1H Super Huey of Vietnam Gunship fame. Actual combat aircraft designed, built and deployed to kill people.

Guess what? Its CalFire, and no one cares! But if some cop has the nerve to get inside an armored vehicle when he is going into a situation where there is a high possibility that he's going to get shot at, Stand By! People are going to flip their wig!

[IrishJoe3]

Or I guess my misunderstanding how the respective DPs train their patrol officers to use them. I really have no idea how other law enforcement bodies train to use them.

So...have you asked them? Our training manuals are all public record. Walk into your local station and request those manuals. It will answer all your questions.

[Bobby Ricigliano]

I would prefer to let people who spend 10-12 hours a day watching edited videos online and blogging about it choose "acceptable" gear for me to use in the field. Yeah, I know I am actually the one out there dealing with bad guys, but I DO NOT want to ruffle the feathers of the internet talking head crowd. One wrong move on my part and they might spill Mountain Dew on themselves or ruin their high end monitor by poking at it in anger with Cheeto dust all over their hands as they critique another police video. In a worse case scenario, browsing a police incident video while lounging at Starbucks could shock their senses to such a degree that they grab the wrong cup off the Starbucks counter and swig a plain pedestrian drip instead of the Venti Pumpkin Spice Latte they actually paid for.

[SoCalDep]

Maybe with the patrol rifles. Or I guess my misunderstanding how the respective DPs train their patrol officers to use them. I really have no idea how other law enforcement bodies train to use them. Now sounding like a total fool here could a LEO please give me an idea of how LAPD trains their line officers to use the department patrol rifle?

I teach the use of the patrol rifle...though not for LAPD. I know their training staff and I highly respect them.

We've trained with former USMC Force Recon, US Army SF, Army Medics, former US Army SF and USPSA Grand Master, Former US Army Delta, Former US Air Force Para Rescue, USMC Convoy security training, numerous law enforcement tactical units, training units, competitive shooting schools, and a couple of the guys have even attended military level sniper schools (with several active duty USMC snipers in attendance).

Others could chime in, but I think many would agree (including many active duty military SF types that have come to train with us) that with the exception (not always) of deploying infantry and special forces units our patrol rifle training (and most certainly our handgun training) exceeds that provided by the military.

I don't mean to diminish the hard work our military does and the utmost respect they deserve. That's one reason why we've pursued training from those with experience in that area. Of course, like any large organization, the military has a varied level of training...much like my law enforcement organization.

[Just-in]

Army/Navy stores have been quite popular since WWII and before. They are a great place to get sturdy gear pretty cheaply. A fact not lost on law enforcement either.

I tried explaining this previously to my GF. A good milsurp store was in my mind a working, or poor mans Big5. Tents, cots, etc can be had at a fair price. Now of course all of them in my area feature 30.00 ammo cans, fake uniforms, and camping gear marked up because they paid close to retail and need to turn a profit.

[Intel0116]

This is an interesting thread, and it got me thinking. Most of us have the utmost respect for LEO's and want nothing more but to see them be safe out there and go home to there family's every night. I think we could all agree on that. Until I see LEO's armed with Javelin's and .50bmg machine guns and 20mm cannons, and hellfire missile's mounted on those armored vehicles, im not going to worry about it. Remember, there the ones who run in to the hail of bullets to save your rear end, why cant they do it as safely as possible?

[Bobby Ricigliano]

I teach the use of the patrol rifle...though not for LAPD. I know their training staff and I highly respect them.

We've trained with former USMC Force Recon, US Army SF, Army Medics, former US Army SF and USPSA Grand Master, Former US Army Delta, Former US Air Force Para Rescue, USMC Convoy security training, numerous law enforcement tactical units, training units, competitive shooting schools, and a couple of the guys have even attended military level sniper schools (with several active duty USMC snipers in attendance).

Others could chime in, but I think many would agree (including many active duty military SF types that have come to train with us) that with the exception (not always) of deploying infantry and special forces units our patrol rifle training (and most certainly our handgun training) exceeds that provided by the military.

I don't mean to diminish the hard work our military does and the utmost respect they deserve. That's one reason why we've pursued training from those with experience in that area. Of course, like any large organization, the military has a varied level of training...much like my law enforcement organization.

I had a fair amount of rifle training in the military prior to ever picking one up in an LE capacity, but the department's training curriculum on the AR platform is definitely challenging. It makes sense, since every high velocity rifle round fired in an American city has to be accounted for.